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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
 Posted - 07/04/2006 : 03:06:24 [Permalink]
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Oh, great insight, Filthy! I'd not thought about that wonderful little problem. But happily for these loonies (who are being called "archaeologists" with a straight face by the media), there is no significant carbon in their basalt Ark for them to worry about dating. I know these guys are fake archaeologists, not fake geologists, but even so, doesn't it seem odd that every last one of them mistook stone for wood?
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 07/04/2006 03:07:46 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2006 : 04:14:41 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner
Oh, great insight, Filthy! I'd not thought about that wonderful little problem. But happily for these loonies (who are being called "archaeologists" with a straight face by the media), there is no significant carbon in their basalt Ark for them to worry about dating. I know these guys are fake archaeologists, not fake geologists, but even so, doesn't it seem odd that every last one of them mistook stone for wood?
"All lies in jest,
For a man hears what he wants to hear,
And disregards the rest......"
Happens all the time. It is much easier to enhance a preconceived notion than to reach a studied conclusion, and so, we get inundated with bullshit from well-spoken cretins trying to support the unsupportable. To my amusement.... 
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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woolytoad
Skeptic Friend
313 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2006 : 05:32:20 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Why, with C-14 dating techniques, of course. There is really no other way to do it. Can't be done archaeologically, because, remember, the Flood destroyed everything whilst in the process of laying down the fossil record, and all construction would have taken place sometime long afterward due to a lack of material and personnel.
Or, you could make a replica and try and get 2 of each animal on the boat. |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2006 : 05:58:18 [Permalink]
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quote:
Or, you could make a replica and try and get 2 of each animal on the boat
Absolutely!!!! Maybe bibleland, Hovind, or one of those types could prove us all wrong by building an exact replica, populating it with the animals mentioned in the bible, then putting it to sea for 40 days. Just to see.... |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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R.Wreck
SFN Regular
USA
1191 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2006 : 07:55:33 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Randy
Straight from the hole of the asp, complete with pictures.
http://www.arkfever.com/
Walt Disney should have their imagination.
Evidence? You want evidence?
quote:
Mary Irwin, wife of late Apollo 15 astronaut Jim Irwin, viewed the evidence and stated that it was “compelling and certainly could be the actual Ark of Noah.”
That's good enough for me. Definitely must be the ark. |
The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley
The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
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woolytoad
Skeptic Friend
313 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2006 : 01:48:31 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by pleco
quote:
Or, you could make a replica and try and get 2 of each animal on the boat
Absolutely!!!! Maybe bibleland, Hovind, or one of those types could prove us all wrong by building an exact replica, populating it with the animals mentioned in the bible, then putting it to sea for 40 days. Just to see....
I will even help. Free of charge[1]. It'll be fun!
[1] Please build it in Sydney fundies, I cannot afford air fair or accommodation to/in the US. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2006 : 06:16:30 [Permalink]
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There is no reason to presume that wood, under the proper conditions -- cool, dry, no insects -- could not survive for many thousands of years. Otzi, a much less durable entity, certainly has.
Not to mention the 'soft tissue' residue in 65 myo T. rex bones.
If I recall right, the tops of those Mid-East mountains have the right conditions. That being the case, we got to get wood when we find the Ark! 
Bring me a treenail (pronounced: 'trunnel') of the proper age for the Ark, and dimension for a vessel that size, verified by an independent, scientific organization, and you might get me to seriously consider it. The 'nail -- they're made of wood -- would prove that such a barge could be built in the Bronze age.
But I fear that it just ain't on. That treenail would have to be as big around as my forearm and probably a couple of feet long to hold the framing together, and there would have to have been a lot of them.
I'd like to see the Bronze Age bit that cut the holes for them....
Unless, of course (arkophiles, I'm giving you an out, here. Free of charge), gopher wood has some mysterious properties of which I have not been made aware.
But, it's all good fun to pick apart the myth(s). Consider; if the Noah story didn't exist, it's place might be taken by something requiring even greater leaps of faith to believe. Wouldn't mind seeing one of those....
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2006 : 08:14:19 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
But I fear that it just ain't on. That treenail would have to be as big around as my forearm and probably a couple of feet long to hold the framing together, and there would have to have been a lot of them.
Percy & Small in Maine apparently "used approximately 26,000 to 42,000 treenails per schooner," depending on the ship's size (each one being between 14 and 30 inches long, and 1.25 inches in diameter). According to the Maritime History Virtual Archives, Percy & Small built a huge six-masted schooner in 1900. I would guess with somewhere around 42,000 treenails. The Eleanor A. Percy, however, would only have been 215 cubits by 33 cubits by 17 cubits or thereabouts. Much smaller than the 300 by 50 by 30 cubits of Genesis 6:15. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2006 : 09:15:09 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:
Originally posted by filthy
But I fear that it just ain't on. That treenail would have to be as big around as my forearm and probably a couple of feet long to hold the framing together, and there would have to have been a lot of them.
Percy & Small in Maine apparently "used approximately 26,000 to 42,000 treenails per schooner," depending on the ship's size (each one being between 14 and 30 inches long, and 1.25 inches in diameter). According to the Maritime History Virtual Archives, Percy & Small built a huge six-masted schooner in 1900. I would guess with somewhere around 42,000 treenails. The Eleanor A. Percy, however, would only have been 215 cubits by 33 cubits by 17 cubits or thereabouts. Much smaller than the 300 by 50 by 30 cubits of Genesis 6:15.
Indeed, indeed. And the ship's timbers would have to be correspondingly massive to bear the stress' at sea on such a hull. My estimate might be on the small side.
To hell with the drill bit; I'd like to know how they might have cut the treenails! You don't just whittle them out; they have to fit their holes to a pretty close tolerance. And they are hardwood.
I do not believe that, in the esteemed Noah's times, the state of the shipbuilders art had anything like the perfection required for such a construct. If fact, I rather doubt that an exact, working replica with the required specifications could be built today (of course it couldn't. We've already covered that lame turkey to exhaustion).
But none of this will deter the True Believer(tm) in the least. They see or read of a shadow on the north face of a mountain, or hear the all-but-hysterical blithering of this bunch: quote:
"I can't imagine what it could be if it is not the Ark," said Arch Bonnema of the Bible Archaeology Search and Exploration (B.A.S.E) Institute, a Christian archeology organization dedicated to looking for biblical artifacts.
et al, and that is good enough for them.
But, as the above-mentioned blitherers hiked to the site, why did they not bring out a piece or two? A chunk of it showing broad axe and adze marks, or with a section of a treenail through it, would go far in supporting their story. Even a few photos -- in focus photos, dammit! -- would encourage further examination.
Don't these characters ever think before they shout? Or have I missed something....?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2006 : 15:09:11 [Permalink]
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I think, Filthy, that these so-called "archaeologists" probably know very well, in at least a firewalled part of their brains, that what they have found is not Noah's Ark, and is not even wood. These guys are using "doublethink," which paradoxically allows them to both be liars and deluded at the same time.
The key is, they are lying for a greater good, in the defense of their God. I think they truly believe the fundy mantra that Christians are being widely persecuted and on the wane in a secular America. (In this, I think, they are more deluded than lying. Ask anyone here if Christianity or mystical thinking in general is on the ropes in America!) So, in their desperation, they carefully bring back no specimens, take blurry photographs, and come up with weasel words like, "I can't imagine what it could be if it is not the Ark," and "But when we got close, we were amazed. It looked similar to wood," and "It is provocative to think that this could be the lost ark of Noah."
Note that, all the while promoting that very idea, they never actually say that they found Noah's Ark.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 07/05/2006 15:36:54 |
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JohnOAS
SFN Regular
Australia
800 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2006 : 16:30:05 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by woolytoad
quote:
Originally posted by pleco
quote:
Or, you could make a replica and try and get 2 of each animal on the boat
Absolutely!!!! Maybe bibleland, Hovind, or one of those types could prove us all wrong by building an exact replica, populating it with the animals mentioned in the bible, then putting it to sea for 40 days. Just to see....
I will even help. Free of charge[1]. It'll be fun!
[1] Please build it in Sydney fundies, I cannot afford air fair or accommodation to/in the US.
Hey ho, another Sydney-sider. Count me in too. Do you want to bring the chips or the beer? |
John's just this guy, you know. |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2006 : 16:53:58 [Permalink]
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I believe filthy has linked to these guys in the past. They are already attempting to reconstruct Noah's ark according to the biblical dimensions, except for some strange reason they are constructing it on dry land as a building using concrete forms and steel beams. I guess they have zero confidence that such a structure could ever float, or be built without resorting to modern materials.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 07/05/2006 16:54:28 |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2006 : 17:11:41 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert
I believe filthy has linked to these guys in the past. They are already attempting to reconstruct Noah's ark according to the biblical dimensions, except for some strange reason they are constructing it on dry land as a building using concrete forms and steel beams. I guess they have zero confidence that such a structure could ever float, or be built without resorting to modern materials.
Thanks, H.H.! The hilarity of this makes my day. Wouldn't it be funny if local flooding someday hit that thing and wrecked it?
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2006 : 18:43:54 [Permalink]
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Do you think we'll see anything in the news when the rock analysis is back.  |
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Topic Locked
