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Randy
SFN Regular
USA
1990 Posts |
 Posted - 07/28/2006 : 17:30:56
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Mel's cup runneth overeth..........
http://www.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/Movies/07/28/gibson.dui/index.html
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"We are all connected; to each other biologically, to the earth chemically, to the rest of the universe atomically."
"So you're made of detritus [from exploded stars]. Get over it. Or better yet, celebrate it. After all, what nobler thought can one cherish than that the universe lives within us all?"
-Neil DeGrasse Tyson |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
 Posted - 07/28/2006 : 18:08:32 [Permalink]
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| Mel, yer rich, call a cab! |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2006 : 18:28:00 [Permalink]
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No kidding! Were I wealthy, I would simply hire a good, professional chauffeur, and then be able to enjoy three glasses of wine at restaurants. As long as Mel doesn't beat wife and children, or endanger both motorists and pedestrians, I could care less if he's drunk all the time.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 07/28/2006 18:28:45 |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Randy
SFN Regular
USA
1990 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2006 : 19:31:38 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Ricky
quote:
...I could care less if he's drunk all the time.
I'd probably prefer it.
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"We are all connected; to each other biologically, to the earth chemically, to the rest of the universe atomically."
"So you're made of detritus [from exploded stars]. Get over it. Or better yet, celebrate it. After all, what nobler thought can one cherish than that the universe lives within us all?"
-Neil DeGrasse Tyson |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2006 : 20:23:38 [Permalink]
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Considering the Jesus freaks are mostly pro-lifers, he ought to be ashamed he put lives at risk driving drunk.
member, MADD, since as long as I can remember (membership is informal, just donate or volunteer once in a while) |
| Edited by - beskeptigal on 07/28/2006 20:27:49 |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2006 : 20:34:11 [Permalink]
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The problem with drunk driving laws is that they've gotten out of control. At least in Ohio the blood alcohol level is so freakin' low that one could get a DUI for having a single glass of wine at dinner and then driving home. What's more, when alcoholics who have a real problem with drunk driving lose their licenses, because we are such a car-dependant society with hardly any good public transit, they all are allowed to drive to work and back. But how can a cop prove you weren't on your way to work or back if you say you were? People with suspended licenses often drive wherever the hell they want. Not to mention that if you're a real hard-core alcoholic, you're going to get drunk, and once you're drunk, you're not going to have the wherewithall to not drive.
We need a better system for dealing with this problem. Unfortunately I'm better at criticizing than providing solutions. Sorry.  |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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| Edited by - marfknox on 07/28/2006 20:35:12 |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Ghost_Skeptic
SFN Regular
Canada
510 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2006 : 22:29:38 [Permalink]
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This isn't the first offence for this hypochristian.
quote:
Gibson was charged with impaired driving in Toronto in 1984, when the vehicle he was driving failed to stop at a red light and struck another vehicle.
An Ontario judge later dropped the impaired driving charge, fining him $300 and suspending his driving privileges in the province for three months.
0.12 is a lot more than 3 glasses of wine - it is thoroughly hammered. |
"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. / You can send a kid to college but you can't make him think." - B.B. King
History is made by stupid people - The Arrogant Worms
"The greater the ignorance the greater the dogmatism." - William Osler
"Religion is the natural home of the psychopath" - Pat Condell
"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter" - Thomas Jefferson |
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JohnOAS
SFN Regular
Australia
800 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2006 : 05:27:29 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Ricky
quote:
We need a better system for dealing with this problem. Unfortunately I'm better at criticizing than providing solutions.
It is much easier to recognize problems than it is to solve them. Doesn't mean we shouldn't do so though.
I remember some comedian proposing putting a breathalyzer in every car and not allowing the car to start unless you pass.
Driving (amongst other things) while under the influence is one of the things that scares me about the potential legalisation of other mind-altering substances. I'm not implying it's the most important issue in relation to legalisation/decrimialisation, it just happens to be the one most likely to affect me.
Breath testing equipment for alcohol is relatively straightforward, and it's already a pretty messy business from a law enforcement perspective. Imagine the following from police officer in the future:
"Excuse me driver, could you please blow into this tube, urinate into this bottle, roll up your sleeve for me to allow me to draw a blood sample and open your mouth for me to take cheek swab. I'll just get these sample back to the mini-lab and we should have you back on the road in no time at all, well, before next weekend at any rate."
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John's just this guy, you know. |
| Edited by - JohnOAS on 07/29/2006 05:30:46 |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2006 : 12:33:19 [Permalink]
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One reason for lowering the legal limit to .08 was to discourage people who are tipsy but think they can drive from second guessing their BA level. Cops aren't likely to pull over people not driving poorly though it does happen.
As far as sentencing, it is totally absurd and doesn't help much at all. Until the courts recognize what the medical community knows, most people with 2 DUIs are alcoholics, then the sentencing will never be effective. The exception to the 2 DUI alcoholic is young people not good at limiting their intake. Of those, many go on to become alcoholic but may be getting DUIs before the disease reaches its trigger threshold.
One problem is judges and legislators drink and some of them consequently think the guy with DUI is not an alcoholic. My guess is a large % of the population (esp. men who are in greater numbers among the judges and legislators) know there but the grace of the luck of the draw go I (them). That leads to discounting the behavior as a mistake rather than a pattern. But studies show for every DUI caught, thousands aren't. So the guy who gets caught isn't necessarily the guy who does it once in a great while.
Anyway, the mentality DUIs are mistakes rather than behavior patterns is a big part of the problem. |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2006 : 14:07:53 [Permalink]
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quote:
One reason for lowering the legal limit to .08 was to discourage people who are tipsy but think they can drive from second guessing their BA level. Cops aren't likely to pull over people not driving poorly though it does happen.
Ehhhh, do not discount racial profiling, age profiling, "random checkpoints" (gee, why are they never in rich neighborhoods?) and other forms of unjust (and often illegal) "fishing" regularly done by cops.
quote:
As far as sentencing, it is totally absurd and doesn't help much at all. Until the courts recognize what the medical community knows, most people with 2 DUIs are alcoholics, then the sentencing will never be effective.
I'm not sure what you mean by this, could you be more specific?
As far as I can tell from my limited personal experience, the sentences for first and second offence DUIs include not only license suspension, but various forms of rehab. My cousin is an alcoholic who got 3 DUIs. After the third his license was suspended for a year and he was court ordered to actually live at a re-hab center or go to jail for a couple months. It straightened him out, and while he still struggles with drinking, he no longer drinks and drives. Another friend of mine got 1 DUI, and the rehab the judge sentenced her to allowed her to come to the realization that she was an alcoholic. So in my experience, some sentencing is very effective.
But I don't know any stats. What are the most common sentences for second time offenders? I do agree with you that someone who gets 2 DUIs is pretty likely to be an alcoholic.
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"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2006 : 15:33:32 [Permalink]
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You may be in a state where sentencing for DUIs is improving. Typical driving school to avoid sentencing for DUI is not effective because most alcoholics need inpatient treatment to at least detox before they can be helped and even then only a small percent recover.
Three DUIs? That means that person was on the road drunk many many times before they were finally really dealt with.
Typical is one overnight in jail. We are talking about a problem that kills thousands and thousands of people, many of them children, every single year. Many many people who drive drunk also drive drunk on suspended licenses, including a large number who are involved in those fatal accidents.
I would judge a successful DUI prosecution standard by how much one decreases the related hwy fatality rate, not whether one or even some people actually dealt with their alcohol addiction after the consequences of a DUI. We haven't made great progress in the medical field with alcoholism. If we had, it would result in safer roads. So in the meantime, we need much stiffer penalties than we currently have.
Hwy fatality rates have decreased due to increased auto safety, but I don't believe we've made a lot of progress decreasing the alcohol factor. |
| Edited by - beskeptigal on 07/29/2006 15:35:52 |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2006 : 15:56:01 [Permalink]
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IN the last 2 decades, the percent of vehicle related deaths involving alcohol has gone down from about 50% to 40%. However, enforcement and stricter laws only accounts for some of that decrease. Increasing drinking age to 21 in more states and anti-drinking/driving campaigns accounts for some of it as well. It's hard to tease out the decrease related to increased enforcement, though probably there has been some improvement there. From the perspective of a nurse having seen the consequences over and over, legal consequences aren't nearly enough considering the death and destruction drunk driving causes. We sent an army and killed 100,000 Iraqis over 3,000 deaths. But you get one night in jail and traffic school for drunk driving which we know will kill 5 times that many people every year.
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm4818a1.htm
"Alcohol-impaired drivers. Annual motor-vehicle crash-related fatalities involving alcohol has decreased 39% since 1982, to approximately 16,000; these deaths account for 38.6% of all traffic deaths (9,10). Factors that may have contributed to this decline include increased public awareness of the dangers of drinking and driving; new and tougher state laws; stricter law enforcement; an increase in the minimum legal drinking age; prevention programs that offer alternatives such as safe rides (e.g., taxicabs and public transportation), designated drivers, and responsible alcohol-serving practices; and a decrease in per capita alcohol consumption (5,6)."
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm4847a3.htm
"Overall, the percentage of traffic fatalities that were alcohol related remained constant at 38.4% in 1998 and 38.5% in 1997"
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00001314.htm
"In 1987, an estimated 23,630 persons were killed in alcohol-related motor vehicle traffic (MVT) crashes
The proportion of MVT-related crashes involving alcohol may have been reduced because of 1) increased public awareness of the problem, 2) enactment of more stringent laws and increased enforcement of existing laws by state and local governments, and 3) laws that raised the drinking age to 21 in all states. Public health workers, highway safety officials, and medical-care providers should continue coordinated efforts to educate the public about this health problem.
FARS data for 1986 indicate that over half (56.8%) of the MVT YPLL were alcohol- related, accounting for 6.8% of the total YPLL in the United States. Alcohol- intoxication-related MVT crashes accounted for 44.5% of all MVT YPLL and 5.3% of the total YPLL in the United States.
The National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism and NHTSA are collaborating in a public, private, state, and federal prevention effort centered around this year's "National Drunk and Drugged Driving Awareness Week," December 12-16, 1988." |
| Edited by - beskeptigal on 07/29/2006 17:55:09 |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2006 : 15:58:20 [Permalink]
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Told you I was a long time MADD member.  |
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Randy
SFN Regular
USA
1990 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2006 : 16:06:01 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
Told you I was a long time MADD member.
Glad to hear that, beskeptigal.
In my book, anyone that drinks and then drives with a buzz-on is a raving dipshit. Gee, guess that makes Mel Gibson a dipshit. Well deserved, if guilty. |
"We are all connected; to each other biologically, to the earth chemically, to the rest of the universe atomically."
"So you're made of detritus [from exploded stars]. Get over it. Or better yet, celebrate it. After all, what nobler thought can one cherish than that the universe lives within us all?"
-Neil DeGrasse Tyson |
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