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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
 Posted - 08/15/2006 : 20:17:02 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Original_Intent
I find modern medicine to be both extremely wonderful, and extremely sad. What I consider natural, others do not.
How is anything about the practice of medicine at all "natural?" The "natural" thing would to be to keel over and die or suffer until you got better without intervention. Simply taking two aspirins with a glass of water is "unnatural."
Unless, of course, if doing those things is "natural" because humans are a part of nature. In which case, absolutely everything we do is natural.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 08/15/2006 20:19:35 |
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Original_Intent
SFN Regular
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2006 : 06:49:40 [Permalink]
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| Natural - expected and accepted. |
The Circus of Carnage... because you should be able to deal with politicians like you do pissant noobs. |
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JohnOAS
SFN Regular
Australia
800 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2006 : 18:19:00 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Original_Intent
Nothing arbitray to it. If they are bloody 70 and can afford it, that's fine with me. Again, I find it unnatural, but to each their own.
I find modern medicine to be both extremely wonderful, and extremely sad. What I consider natural, others do not.
That's entirely arbitrary. What's special about 70? How do you determine the difference between what's wonderful and what's sad? Do you have some concrete criteria or is it entirely subjective?
quote:
Originally posted by Original_Intent
Natural - expected and accepted.
That's almost entirely meaningless in this context.
Less than a century ago, it was "expected" and "accepted" that around 6% of women would die during childbirth, now it's improved, rather unnaturally, by a factor of around 100. What are your thoughts on this?
*These statistics were found after a pretty brief web search and are based I believe, solely on US data. The figures are meant to illustrate my point. |
John's just this guy, you know. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2006 : 22:47:21 [Permalink]
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O.I. said:
quote:
Natural - expected and accepted.
That is a rather unique, and basically arbitrary, definition of natural.
Things always get interesting when people start inventing new definitions to suit themselves.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Original_Intent
SFN Regular
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2006 : 06:07:10 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
O.I. said:
quote:
Natural - expected and accepted.
That is a rather unique, and basically arbitrary, definition of natural.
Things always get interesting when people start inventing new definitions to suit themselves.
Pick up a dictionary and look up the word natural.....
While I am waiting for your recantation, let me respond to the rest of y'all......
Read what I wrote. Can I make it any simpler? I don't care if they are 100... as long as they can afford it. The only line I draw is the ability to afford it. I find the idea PERSONALLY unnatural, but who am I to tell people how to live their lives, other then to demand responsibility for ones actions. |
The Circus of Carnage... because you should be able to deal with politicians like you do pissant noobs. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2006 : 13:59:45 [Permalink]
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Ok.
Natural: (from http://www.merriam-webstercollegiate.com)
quote:
1 : based on an inherent sense of right and wrong <natural justice>
2 a : being in accordance with or determined by nature b : having or constituting a classification based on features existing in nature
3 a (1) : begotten as distinguished from adopted; also : LEGITIMATE (2) : being a relation by actual consanguinity as distinguished from adoption <natural parents> b : ILLEGITIMATE <a natural child>
4 : having an essential relation with someone or something : following from the nature of the one in question <his guilt is a natural deduction from the evidence>
5 : implanted or being as if implanted by nature : seemingly inborn <a natural talent for art>
6 : of or relating to nature as an object of study and research
7 : having a specified character by nature <a natural athlete>
8 a : occurring in conformity with the ordinary course of nature : not marvelous or supernatural <natural causes> b : formulated by human reason alone rather than revelation <natural religion> <natural rights> c : having a normal or usual character <events followed their natural course>
9 : possessing or exhibiting the higher qualities (as kindliness and affection) of human nature <a noble...brother...ever most kind and natural -- Shakespeare>
10 a : growing without human care; also : not cultivated <natural prairie unbroken by the plow> b : existing in or produced by nature : not artificial <natural turf> <natural curiosities> c : relating to or being natural food
11 a : being in a state of nature without spiritual enlightenment : UNREGENERATE <natural man> b : living in or as if in a state of nature untouched by the influences of civilization and society
12 a : having a physical or real existence as contrasted with one that is spiritual, intellectual, or fictitious <a corporation is a legal but not a natural person> b : of, relating to, or operating in the physical as opposed to the spiritual world <natural laws describe phenomena of the physical universe>
13 a : closely resembling an original : true to nature b : marked by easy simplicity and freedom from artificiality, affectation, or constraint c : having a form or appearance found in nature
14 a : having neither flats nor sharps <the natural scale of C major> b : being neither sharp nor flat c : having the pitch modified by the natural sign
15 : of an off-white or beige color
There ya have it.
But I will grant you that the word is sometimes used as a synonym for "expected", but only in a narrow context.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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| Edited by - Dude on 08/17/2006 14:08:09 |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2006 : 20:51:19 [Permalink]
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I can't believe natural refers to off-white or beige. What is that implying? Dark skin isn't natural? Or am I totally misreading the origin of that particular use of the word?
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| Edited by - beskeptigal on 08/17/2006 20:51:45 |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2006 : 04:54:15 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
I can't believe natural refers to off-white or beige. What is that implying? Dark skin isn't natural? Or am I totally misreading the origin of that particular use of the word?
I think it's a reference to the color of pantyhose.
And no, I'm not gonna explain how I know that.  |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2006 : 10:06:44 [Permalink]
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| Close, Val, but it refers to fibers, like linen or cotton. Natural colors are ones that aren't created using dye. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2006 : 10:35:08 [Permalink]
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| Basically if humans couldnt have done it 10000 years ago its unnatural. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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Cookie Parker
New Member
17 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2006 : 05:12:22 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf
Basically if humans couldnt have done it 10000 years ago its unnatural.
I don't know...people couldnt live much past the age of 35 about 200 years ago..should we slaughter everyone over 35 because it's not natural?
I think this woman had to be in great shape. Many of us are under the opinion that people in their 60's are arthritic, overweight and have lung and heart problems. While this may be the case for some people and possibly the majority, there are those who have taken very good care of themselves and are still healthier than a lot of obese, smoking, lung problem, heart problem 40 year olds.
I like the idea of choice. This woman has a right to do with her body as she wants. If she wanted to experiment with it for science or science wanted to provide for her what she wanted, then have at it. Bottomline, if you don't want to do it at that age, don't. |
Blaise Pascal:
To deny, to believe, and to doubt absolutely -- this is for man what running is for a horse. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2006 : 20:51:16 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
Close, Val, but it refers to fibers, like linen or cotton. Natural colors are ones that aren't created using dye.
Well that's OK then. It makes sense. |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2006 : 06:44:22 [Permalink]
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Not dying isnt really something you "do", FYI. Its not the surviving thats unnatural but the heart surgery or Iron Lung which let you survive. If you live to 110 without it then you can have my official 100% natural sticker for your coffin.
I dont think I should have to put common sense disclamers in all of my posts. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2006 : 08:38:15 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf
Not dying isnt really something you "do", FYI. Its not the surviving thats unnatural but the heart surgery or Iron Lung which let you survive. If you live to 110 without it then you can have my official 100% natural sticker for your coffin.
I dont think I should have to put common sense disclamers in all of my posts.
Does it come with a "no additaves or preservatives" claim for the coffin sticker?
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Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2006 : 10:07:19 [Permalink]
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| Yep and an air freshener! A 2.99$ value, FREE! |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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