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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
 Posted - 08/12/2006 : 23:34:26 [Permalink]
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Well, there is atleast one legitimate question here.
What, exactly, are they doing with all these potential bombs?
If they suspect that your Aqaufina bottle is actually a chemical that will become a bomb when mixed with another chemical that they are supposedly also confiscating from another passenger in line.... how are they disposing of these hundreds of thousands of potential bombs?
The reaction to this is typical. OMFG! BOMBS IN WATER BOTTLES?! STOP EVERYONE FROM TAKING WATER ON BOARD! IT MIGHT BE A BOMB!
But their tiny little brains can't think it through to the next step. How do you dispose of this stuff if you honestly think it could be explosive?
My bet is it goes something like this:
Garbage can--->Airport dumpster--->Garbage truck---->Local city garbage disposal (landfill, incinerator, etc)
Obviously it is impossible to dispose of all those confiscated containers as if they were potential bombs.
As for the pic of the woman dumping a liquid into a garbage can... she just doesn't want to throw away the sipy-cup.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2006 : 00:00:47 [Permalink]
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Dave, did it ever dawn on you the refuse collectors anticipate some liquids especially in trash where sodas in cups are sold? And there are other items in the plastic bags like napkins that absorb some of the liquids.
Where is it you have seen garbage workers cleaning up the liquid spilled from public refuse cans? You cannot control the public in such cases unless you put up a sign and a location to pour the liquid out. The best option is to assume there will be cups half filled and have heavy enough plastic the bag doesn't leak. If you were a garbage collector and you just went around complaining about it that seems futile. Better to solve the problem than to complain about what people you cannot control do or don't do in this case. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2006 : 01:00:07 [Permalink]
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True, the picture is not the best, but as it is not illustrating anything I wrote, I see no need to apologize for it.
But have no fear; the disposal problem is under control. quote:
In Pennsylvania, state officials were considering pulling some discarded items for a state program that resells on eBay any items of value relinquished at airport security checkpoints, said Edward Myslewicz, spokesman for the General Services Department. However, officials at the state's main airports in Philadelphia and Pittsburgh said they were discarding all the liquids and gels.
And the Phonex Sky Harbor International Airport is considering giving it to the homeless.
Everybody else seems to be just dumping it. Or perhaps making trashcan soup out of it. 
Isn't it comforting to know that such organizational einsteins are running the Department of Homeland Security? Don't we all feel much safer now?
Re: the lip gloss; good riddance. Most of that stuff makes women look like clown college dropouts, anyway.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2006 : 01:42:25 [Permalink]
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Just saw on a CNN report (as many here probably have) that Homeland Security has known of potential liquid explosives for "a year" but has done nothing.
While flying as a passenger, one thing I and others have noticed is that even though fingernail clippers are not allowed, they apparently do allow knitting needles. I've seen both aluminum and wooden long sharp pointed knitting needles on planes.  |
Diversity, independence, innovation and imagination are progressive concepts ultimately alien to the conservative mind.
"TAX AND SPEND" IS GOOD! (TAX: Wealthy corporations who won't go poor even after taxes. SPEND: On public works programs, education, the environment, improvements.) |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2006 : 07:03:53 [Permalink]
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| I heard one story where they would not allow a person to take their insulin on board. |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2006 : 20:03:48 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
Dave, did it ever dawn on you the refuse collectors anticipate some liquids especially in trash where sodas in cups are sold?
What the...? Did it ever dawn on you that it's easy to make their lives a little less messy even if they anticipate it?quote:
And there are other items in the plastic bags like napkins that absorb some of the liquids.
[Slaps forehead] Yeah, like when I mentioned trying to have cups land on absorbent stuff?quote:
Where is it you have seen garbage workers cleaning up the liquid spilled from public refuse cans?
Just about every place I've spent more than a couple weeks where there are public trash cans, I've seen little lines of drops on the floor leading from a trash can to wherever the collector placed the "big bin." Sometimes they're in carpet, sometimes on tile, and sometimes I notice them only because whoever was collecting the trash has made a special trip back with a mop on a day that they don't usually mop.quote:
You cannot control the public in such cases unless you put up a sign and a location to pour the liquid out.
Good grief. A little tiny rant about how I think that people should, in general, be more considerate to the clean-up crew, and suddenly I'm trying to "control the public." What the hell!?!quote:
Better to solve the problem than to complain about what people you cannot control do or don't do in this case.
I'll remind you of these words of wisdom, Beskeptigal, the next time you post about voting irregularities, corporate control of the media, Israel or the like without also posting "and this is how I solved the problem..." Good grief! |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2006 : 21:10:43 [Permalink]
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But I have tried to take the approach of do what you can rather than complain about what you have no control over as much as possible, Dave.
I have a lot to say to share information. But when it comes to solutions, I do try to take the kind of approach I said about the garbage collectors.
I can't change the media monopoly but I can educate others what is wrong and where they can get more complete information.
I can't change Israelis or Palestinians but the approach I have been promoting is for either side to stop complaining that "they" did this or "they" won't do that and take actions for change that one does have control over.
We have to speak out against the voting irregularities or nothing will change. If I were in Ohio I'd be screaming.
I have had the philosophy of 'assume you can't change the other guy' in much of how I teach about occupational safety. You can't stop the other guy from putting a needle in the trash so you have to handle the trash as if there is a needle in it, and so on.
If there were another solution to the liquids in the trash, I'd be advocating it. My point was you can't get people to do the polite thing so you have to design the container to accommodate the rude behavior. It is very consistent with my philosophy. |
| Edited by - beskeptigal on 08/13/2006 21:11:30 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2006 : 12:07:21 [Permalink]
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I don't see a substantial difference here, beskeptigal. I mean, I've got no control over people's behaviour, and I've also got no control over the design of garbage cans. But, if someone who reads my little rant does happen to pause before pitching a half-drunk cup of coffee, it will have had more of an effect than I intended.
Out of curiosity, in your philosophy, since we can't control people's behaviour and we can't redesign the forests, is the whole "Smokey the Bear" campaign a waste of money? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2006 : 04:59:34 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Original_Intent
Yeah, MSDS sheets... Gotta love them..... Everything has to have an MSDS sheet...
Joe
Check the one on White-Out. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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R.Wreck
SFN Regular
USA
1191 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2006 : 15:16:43 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Original_Intent:
That is a good question. The handleing of potentially hazerdous substances is pretty darn expensive. I could see lip gloss being confiscated. The gloss part may work as gloss, but how much high explosive material on a window of a jet is needed to bring it down?
I don't think you can take down an airliner by blowing out one window. You need to do enough damage to the airframe to make in not airworthy, which would take a pretty good explosion in the right place. Years ago a jet in Hawaii lost about a third of it's roof and still managed to fly and land. |
The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley
The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2006 : 15:23:32 [Permalink]
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quote:
I don't think you can take down an airliner by blowing out one window. You need to do enough damage to the airframe to make in not airworthy, which would take a pretty good explosion in the right place. Years ago a jet in Hawaii lost about a third of it's roof and still managed to fly and land.
You can't. Mythbusters tried it. |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2006 : 12:34:47 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
I don't see a substantial difference here, beskeptigal. I mean, I've got no control over people's behaviour, and I've also got no control over the design of garbage cans. But, if someone who reads my little rant does happen to pause before pitching a half-drunk cup of coffee, it will have had more of an effect than I intended.
Out of curiosity, in your philosophy, since we can't control people's behaviour and we can't redesign the forests, is the whole "Smokey the Bear" campaign a waste of money?
Tell me how to re-design a forest so people have a harder time starting fires and I would say most definitely, do it!
Let's put this in perspective. It is a general philosophy. It can't be applied to everything, nor to every aspect of one's life. But let me elaborate a bit further and maybe it will be more clear to you where I am coming from.
Bear with me and read this background of how I came to adopt this philosophy and it will make more sense.
I noticed a very long time ago that we refer to so many things as accidents that really aren't. It is rarely a true accident a child drowns in a pool. It is more likely the conditions that led to the accident were preventable. This is the first half of my philosophy, if it was preventable, it wasn't an accident, and, you don't look at the last event, you go further back to see where the 'accident' really began.
I have also had a job in occupational health for 17 years. In that job, prevention is a huge part. There are 3 levels of accident prevention. Administrative controls, engineering controls and work practices, in that order.
Now think that nurses have been told to "be careful", a work practice, to prevent needlesticks for a century. Keep in mind that 200 health care workers a year were dying from hepatitis B in the 1980s so it isn't that a needlestick wasn't as dangerous as say, a power saw. But in the workplace, power saws have had mandatory safety features, an engineering control, since the OSHAct in 1974. Safer needles weren't introduced until 1991 despite the safer designs being pretty simple to develop.
And part of safer work practices when there are no engineering controls is to look at ways of doing one's job habitually in a way that will prevent an accident. When a person is handling a trash bag, they should always handle it as if someone else threw a needle in it. Because you can take that action in spite of the other person not having taken the proper action.
In addition to worker safety, we are finally coming to terms in the health care industry with ways to prevent medical errors. You don't put two drug bottles next to each other that look alike. You don't send undiluted potassium from the pharmacy for the nurses to add to the IV, you add it in the pharmacy, and so on. These are work practices and engineering controls.
As an occupational health professional, I look at 'accidents' with an eye for preventing the next one. So I am constantly looking for both work practices and engineering controls to prevent the next accident.
I have also learned that training people to change their behavior takes more than just 'imparting knowledge'. Telling nurses to be careful over and over had zero impact on the rate of needlesticks. When that is the case, you have to look for the reasons the behavior isn't changing. Ideally, you implement an engineering control because changing behavior is difficult and unreliable.
So with this background I have come to look at many things with a similar philosophy. You described a problem, liquids tossed in the trash by consumers leading to a mess for the trash handler.
I look for a solution by analyzing the problem.
Why does the consumer put the liquid in the trash? Because they don't know it is a problem, they don't care, and/or there isn't any other convenient place to put the liquid.
You can't expect the consumer to have Dave W.'s values. They don't. So if you want to change their behavior, you will have to put up a sign hope they read it and give them an alternative place to pour the liquid.
Or you can take the approach the above solution is unworkable. That leaves 2 options, do nothing and keep cleaning the mess, or design the trash receptacle to contain liquids. The latter would be my choice.
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| Edited by - beskeptigal on 08/16/2006 12:35:32 |
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