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Michael Mozina
SFN Regular
1647 Posts |
 Posted - 09/06/2006 : 09:43:55 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by GeeMack
Actually Neal Hurlburt from LMSAL specifically said that running difference images do not show any kind of solid structure or surface.
Your buddy Neal at LMSAL evidently doesn't have the professional courtesy to email me back to let me know who even created the image, let alone answer any of the direct "hardball" questions I sent him last week. So much for your appeal to authority fallacy Geemack. Your authority is not even answering the basic questions about the technical aspects of the image, let alone offering any explanations for any of the actual details we observe in the image.
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You claim they do, Michael, but your only support is the assertion itself, which is no support at all.
Evidently you don't pay attention.
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Even when asked directly to specify exactly what you mean by structures and solid features and to point out the things you believe to be solid, you balked completely.
Ridiculace BS. I circled three items for you that you evidently just ignored.
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You only said some things you see are solid features and some are effects of the changes in brightness, so even you, who keep on whining about how nobody else can or will explain those images in any detail, are clearly unable to explain them in any detail.
More BS.
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On the other hand, we in this forum have explained running difference images down to the very last pixel.
Pure BS.
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And since Dr. Hurlburt has stated unequivocally that they don't show a surface or anything solid, as it relates to the possibility that running difference images might support your crazy solid surfaced Sun fantasy, there is no more thorough and complete explanation possible.
That is a pure appeal to authority fallacy from an "authority" that evidently doesn't know how to answer any of my direct questions and who utterly *refuses* to even tell me who created the image to begin with. Some authority figure Geemack. NASA at least would tell me who created their images and they answered direct questions about their images. LMSAL on the other hand disavows all knowledge of their own images. That's not exactly the kind of behavior one might expect to see from an "authority" figure.
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The better explanation has been given, and it is that you are wrong.
Dr. Hurlburt (in fact all the folks at LMSAL) have never had the balls to answer any of my direct hardball questions about any of the technical or observed details of this particular image, so there is no way in hell he or anyone at LMSAL could possibly have provided a "better" explanation of the image. In fact, your "authority" won't even email me back with the name of the individual that created this image, let alone provide any technical details about the image. For a guy that is supposed to be "in charge" of the image in question, you'd think he could at least tell me who created the image. Evidently he won't do even that much. He certainly offered me no "explanation" for any of the technical aspects of that image, let alone of any explanation for the "ridid patterns" in the image.
You stuck your foot so far down your throat on this issue it's not even funny. To date, you've *still* never explained any of the rigid patterns in the image or answered any of the three questions I put to you. You've run like hell from every direct questions I've asked you about this image, erroneously chalking up all the patterns to the processing technique itself. You're clearly quite clueless about RD images Geemack.
You are nothing but a two bit punk Geemack. You are evidently incapable of having a "grown up" discussion that is focused on the science presented. All you are good for are childish personal insults and pure trash talk. Grow up. |
| Edited by - Michael Mozina on 09/06/2006 09:58:08 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2006 : 10:15:37 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Michael Mozina
You are evidently incapable of having a "grown up" discussion that is focused on the science presented.
You are projecting. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2006 : 10:19:37 [Permalink]
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quote:
Michael said:
Dr. Hurlburt (in fact all the folks at LMSAL) have never had the balls to answer any of my direct hardball questions about any of the technical or observed details of this particular image
Right Michael, just like no one here has answered your questions about these images. 
I'm sure your questions were answered, it was just they were not the answers you wanted. I also imagine that you spouted psuedo-science, cited conspiracies and refused to understand any of the science that Dr. Hurlburt presented to you, kind of like you've done in these last 165 pages or so.
So Dr. Hurlburt got tired of you ranting like a nut case and stopped responding to you - well good for him.
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In fact, your "authority" won't even email me back with the name of the individual that created this image, let alone provide any technical details about the image.
Of course he won't, the guy that created the image would probably strangle Dr. Hurlburt if he gave his name to you. The last thing he needs is you spaming his inbox with your crazy ideas.
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2006 : 10:32:30 [Permalink]
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quote:
Michael said:To date, you've *still* never explained any of the rigid patterns in the image or answered any of the three questions I put to you. You've run like hell from every direct questions I've asked you about this image, erroneously chalking up all the patterns to the processing technique itself. You're clearly quite clueless about RD images Geemack.
Don't you think it is a little odd that ONLY you understand the RD images?
You sound sort of like the guy who wraps his head in aluminum foil for mind control protection. The rest of us just don't 'get it'. 
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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Michael Mozina
SFN Regular
1647 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2006 : 11:21:18 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by furshur
Right Michael, just like no one here has answered your questions about these images.
Actually furshur, people here on this forum have at least responded and answered some of my direct questions about the *content* of this image, particularly Dave and John. Dave's been *a lot* more helpful in regards to this image than anyone at LMSAL. Dave's considerable effort is quite unlike the actions of LMSAL who literally disavowed all knowledge of this important image and have refused to answer even basic questions about the image. They won't even reveal the basic stuff, like who put it together, or what software routines were used in the process.
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I'm sure your questions were answered, it was just they were not the answers you wanted.
That is utterly false. All I really wanted from LMSAL was the name of the person who put the image together. I wanted to get some basic information about the software subroutines that were used, and the specific images that were used, so that I could duplicate their work and duplicate this specific image. I couldn't even get that much information out of LMSAL, let alone any returned emails to my direct questions about the observations *in* the image itself. They've literally ignored my emails about this image other than to say they don't know who created the image.
I am now to believe that the whole of LMSAL can't even keep track of who posted which image to their own website, and not a single one of them can find out who posted this image to their website. Some "experts".
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I also imagine that you spouted psuedo-science, cited conspiracies and refused to understand any of the science that Dr. Hurlburt presented to you, kind of like you've done in these last 165 pages or so.
No furshur. Dr. Hurlburt responded only once to my very first email, only to say that he did not create the image. He did not even bother to return either of my two follow up emails asking him who created the image, and he certainly didn't answer my email with the list of direct questions about the observations (content) in the image. That is simply unprofessional. NASA/ESA has never acted like that, nor has Stanford, nor have the folks invovled in the STEREO program. Even a "big wig" like Russ Howard from the STEREO program has responded to my emails out of professional courtesy and STEREO is still sitting on the ground!
Only LMSAL is "too good" to be be bothered to answer any questions put to them by a mere "amateur", and seem willing to blow of direct questions from chemistry professors as well.
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So Dr. Hurlburt got tired of you ranting like a nut case and stopped responding to you - well good for him.
If by "rant", you mean three very polite emails, sure I "ranted" at him unmercifully and clogged Neal's poor inbox with endless pestering.
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Of course he won't, the guy that created the image would probably strangle Dr. Hurlburt if he gave his name to you. The last thing he needs is you spaming his inbox with your crazy ideas.
Ya, it would be horrible to have to take a few minutes to answer a few scientific questions about an image you put hours of your work into.
LMSAL is the only organization I have ever communicated with that has been less than professional in their conduct, and less than forthcoming with basic information. Dr. SOHO (Stein) from the SOHO program must have responded to 20 of my emails, some of which were very repetitive and incredibly tedious since I was just learning the basics of RD images. I thanked Stein publicly on my website for his considerable time and effort and professionalism, even though I disagreed with his interpretation of the SOHO RD images. He was every bit the consumate professional, and I have nothing but good things to say about him. I have nothing but praise for the folks involved in the SOHO program and the people at NASA and ESA.
Dr. Kosovichev and I probably exchange 30+ emails and he answered every direct question I asked him about his sunquake (tsunami) image. Never once did he dance around the questions I sent him, or fail to give me a professional response. I appreciated his efforts and his time. In fact I added a quote to my website at his request because I respect him a great deal. Both the folks at SOHO and the folks at Stanford have been absolute professionals. LMSAL on the other hand, won't even be bothered to tell me or Dr. Manuel who created their RD image, let alone offer any answers to any of my questions about the image. While Carolus from LMSAL did respond to my questions about the heat signature images on their website, he and Neal have given me the brush off as it relates to the RD image. That is not professional behavior. Even when Dr. Manuel, a professor of nuclear chemistry from a US university, asked the LMSAL team for basic information about this RD image, they simply refused to answer his questions as well, claiming they had no idea who created or posted the image. It's not just "amateurs" like me they treat like crap, the ignore the requests of professional "scientists" as well. |
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Michael Mozina
SFN Regular
1647 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2006 : 11:33:13 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by furshur
Don't you think it is a little odd that ONLY you understand the RD images?
No, I think it's a little "odd" that you're ignoring the fact I've done papers with 3 other individuals that also seem to "understand" the RD images just fine.
quote:
You sound sort of like the guy who wraps his head in aluminum foil for mind control protection. The rest of us just don't 'get it'.
This is typical of the pety insults that seem to pass for "science" or "skepticism" around this joint. It's evidently fine to believe in unevidenced and unfalsyable particle/fields, and it's fine to believe that plasmas don't separate in gravity and EM fields even though they consistently separate here on earth in such conditions. It's fine to make up faerytale creation myths and create things like "dark energy" anytime you like. Whatever you do however, don't notice those consistent surface features in RD and Doppler images because those are just "pretty little pictures" and they don't matter. Sheesh. This place is amazing. |
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Michael Mozina
SFN Regular
1647 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2006 : 11:37:12 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Mozina
You are evidently incapable of having a "grown up" discussion that is focused on the science presented.
You are projecting.
No Dave, I am simply observing his behaviors for the past few months. Geemack is evidently incapable of posting anything without including a healthy dose of personal attacks, and childish pety insults. It's like talking with a spoiled teenager with a bad attitude. It's not enough that he says what he believes and moves on. Noooooo! He needs to repreat the same insults over and over and over again, as though repetition will make them true. Worse yet, he "grandstands" for the crowd. He's not talking science Dave, he's talking trash in every single post. That is pitifully immature behavior. |
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2006 : 13:01:15 [Permalink]
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quote:
Dr. SOHO (Stein) from the SOHO program must have responded to 20 of my emails, some of which were very repetitive and incredibly tedious since I was just learning the basics of RD images.
Well, that was time well spent; 20 e-mails and you still have no clue about how to interpret RD images.....
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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Michael Mozina
SFN Regular
1647 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2006 : 13:43:03 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by furshur
quote:
Dr. SOHO (Stein) from the SOHO program must have responded to 20 of my emails, some of which were very repetitive and incredibly tedious since I was just learning the basics of RD images.
Well, that was time well spent; 20 e-mails and you still have no clue about how to interpret RD images.....
Boloney. Unlinke Stein and the group at LMSAL, I understand the light source of the original images. Because I understand the light source of the original images I can actually begin to analyse the data in a logical manner. I know for a a fact that this is a whole lot further than LMSAL has gotten, since LMSAL can't even get the heat signature of the corona figured out. In this case the heat source and the light source are directly related. If one "understands" the light source, the heat signature of the corona is impossible to screw up and LMSAL screwed it up. Worse still is that nobody at NASA even noticed that LMSAL screwed it up, and LMSAL refused to fix it when I *showed them* that they screwed it up. |
| Edited by - Michael Mozina on 09/06/2006 13:47:37 |
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2006 : 14:06:08 [Permalink]
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quote:
Michael said:
Unlinke Stein and the group at LMSAL, I understand the light source of the original images.
Unbelievable! Stein corresponds with you for 20 e-mails to explain to you how to interpret RD images. Armed with that extensive training you can now state that the person that taught you how to interpret the images doesn't understand what he is seeing, and can't interpret these images as well as you.
What freaking arrogance!
But wait there is more:
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If one "understands" the light source, the heat signature of the corona is impossible to screw up and LMSAL screwed it up. Worse still is that nobody at NASA even noticed that LMSAL screwed it up.
Not only is Stein screwed up but all of LMSAL is too. Hell NASA can't see something that is obvious to the great Mozina. It is so obvious it is impossible for them not to see that Michael is right!
I have to agree with one of GeeMack's hypothesis, specifically the one that posits that you have a mental problem. Your grasp on reality is tenuous at best.
Upriver agrees with you - course he also believes in flying saucers, psi powers and god knows what else.
Get some help....
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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Michael Mozina
SFN Regular
1647 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2006 : 15:32:08 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by furshur
Unbelievable! Stein corresponds with you for 20 e-mails to explain to you how to interpret RD images. Armed with that extensive training you can now state that the person that taught you how to interpret the images doesn't understand what he is seeing, and can't interpret these images as well as you.
What freaking arrogance!
It has absolutely nothing to do with arrogance furshur, it has to do with "interpretation" and "knowledge".
During our numerous email exchanges, it became quite clear that Stein (Dr. SOHO) believed that the coronal loops were being "backlit" somehow by light from below. It became clear from these discussions that Stein did not understand that the light from the coronal loops was coming from *inside* the coronal loops, not from *outside* of the coronal loops. That distinction in *understanding* makes a huge difference on how one "interprets" these types of images, both the original images, as well as any processed images.
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Not only is Stein screwed up but all of LMSAL is too. Hell NASA can't see something that is obvious to the great Mozina. It is so obvious it is impossible for them not to see that Michael is right!
Evidently you missed all the good things I had to say about Stein and NASA and ESA and you instead decided to create a stawman out of my statements so that you could be insulting. How clever of you.
As it relates to the light source of these images however, Stein and I simply could not ultimately agree on where the light came from. This clear difference in interpretation of the light source naturally leads to very different kinds of interpretations of the data. I have no beef with Stein however and he was right about the fact that RD images do bring out the "stronger features" on the surface. I agreed with most of what he said actually, but the difference in light source interpretations leads to very different interpretations of RD images, and even raw images.
My primary beef however is with LMSAL not NASA since the mistake is posted on LMSAL's website, not NASA's website, and I've emailed LMSAL about it, not NASA. The LMSAL folks are in charge of the "transition region and coronal explorer", and they're the ones that put the bogus heat signature images together using TRACE images.
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I have to agree with one of GeeMack's hypothesis,
I don't care what you think furshur. No amount of personal attack and ridicule is going to change my opinion. The only answers I will accept are scientific answers that jive with reality, not trash talk and personal attack in absense of scientific answers. Anyone can spew BS like that. Who cares what you think if you don't have any scientific answers to offer? |
| Edited by - Michael Mozina on 09/06/2006 15:39:50 |
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Michael Mozina
SFN Regular
1647 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2006 : 15:58:29 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by furshur
Upriver agrees with you....
Great. That makes at least five of us that understand RD images. I guess you'll have to ackowledge now that I'm not the *only* person to understand RD images, or do you intend to continue to insist that I'm the only person who undertands them? |
| Edited by - Michael Mozina on 09/06/2006 16:25:34 |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2006 : 16:29:08 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Michael Mozina
quote:
Originally posted by furshur
Upriver agrees with you....
Great. That makes at least five of us that understand RD images.
No, that makes five of you who share an opinion. There is no evidence that you understand the images.
quote:
It became clear from these discussions that Stein did not understand that the light from the coronal loops was coming from *inside* the coronal loops, not from *outside* of the coronal loops.
Again, agreement with your opinion is not the same as understanding, Michael. You are so convinced that you are correct that you've literally lost the ability to doubt your own conclusions. This certainty, far beyond what the evidence suggests or warrents, is precisely why you've become a crackpot.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 09/06/2006 16:38:13 |
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Michael Mozina
SFN Regular
1647 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2006 : 21:26:31 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert
No, that makes five of you who share an opinion. There is no evidence that you understand the images.
Well, I agree actually, but my comment was really in reference to furshur's earlier statements about only *me* understanding the RD images. That is not true. I'm not the only one that "understands" them from my perspective, and I'm not the only person who "interprets" them as I do, despite furshur's comments to the contrary.
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Again, agreement with your opinion is not the same as understanding, Michael.
Ya, ok.
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You are so convinced that you are correct that you've literally lost the ability to doubt your own conclusions. This certainty, far beyond what the evidence suggests or warrents, is precisely why you've become a crackpot.
I have not lost the ability to doubt my own conclusions HH. In fact I've emailed lots of individuals and NASA and LMSAL and other organizations looking for different explanations, and "better" scientific explanations. Such exlanations simply have not been forthcoming. I've even been out here in cyberspace debating these ideas and these images publicly now for over a year in an effort to falfsify and/or verify my position and my interpretations. Nothing I've heard so far leads me to believe that A) LMSAL even understands the nature of the light source of the raw images that were used to create the RD images, or B) that I've blown the "interpretation" related to the location of solar moss activity or that I've missed anything related to the rigid features of the RD image.
All the cheezy cheap shots in the world ("crackpot") aren't going to change my opinion on this topic. Only science, and better scientific answers can change my opinion on this topic.
LMSAL hasn't been forthcoming with any scientific answers HH. Even when I emailed Karol Schrijver about the heat signature images, he was not forthcoming with any math to support their case, rather he handed me an appeal to authority routine like I shouldn't dare question his opinions. Karol denied knowing who created the RD image, and Neal won't answer my question about the author of the image either. What can I say? I can't even get these guys to tell me who created the RD image, or clue me into any of the technical details related to software processing methods they used and the raw images they used, let alone get them to explain any of the details we observe in the RD composite image. How then could I possibly have any clue if LMSAL actually has a "better" scientific explanation for this image? |
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Michael Mozina
SFN Regular
1647 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2006 : 21:31:36 [Permalink]
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quote:
Don't you think it is a little odd that ONLY you understand the RD images?
This was the quote that my previous response was in reference to HH. Even from my perspective, I'm not the *only* individual that "understands" these images. |
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