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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
 Posted - 09/27/2006 : 03:05:59 [Permalink]
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dglas said:
quote:
"Atheist" is a term that falls at one extreme of an artificial, dichotomous continuum. To accept the label is to recognize that theism is in some way meaningful.
So, if I proclaim that I do not have a belief in theism, I am somehow lending credibility to theism?
I think you are reading to much into the term.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2006 : 07:14:06 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by dglas
"Atheist" is a term that falls at one extreme of an artificial, dichotomous continuum. To accept the label is to recognize that theism is in some way meaningful. It is not. I tried to get this across once before, but was drowned out by vitriol.
How do you mean "meaningful?" Do you not think that theism has an impact on society?
People tell me that people should not be identified by race. I agree, but until they are not, then they should be. That is to say, as long as racism is a factor, then we should realize that race is a factor.
As long as theists hate reality and expect me to have the same hatred or reject me as an equal, then I feel the need to identify myself as someone who has an appreciation of reality. One that lacks (or at least tries to lack) the need to believe in things which deny reality. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2006 : 09:03:08 [Permalink]
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I don't think that voting in a church is automatically or inherently a violation of church-state separation. However, as religion gets more and more partisan and as more and more churches quietly or not-so-quietly preach specific stances or certain political issues, I am becoming more and more uncomfortable about voting in a church. IMO, it is not a “non-issue” as Half says, nor do I think it is a clear violation of church-state separation, as charpman asserts.
I had to vote in a church while I lived in Columbus, Ohio. I had a bad feeling about that from the start, and then, during the 2000 election when I went to vote I saw this message on the church's front sign:
I came back that night and took this picture and sent it to all the local newspapers. Only one of the alternative papers published a story about it. I and another voter in that neighborhood filed formal complaints as well. But the church continues to this day to be the voting location in that neighborhood.
dgls wrote: quote:
Why would you have a problem with Republican signs being "too close" to a polling place?
1.) It is the law. 2.) It is a good law. We know propaganda can have an even temporary effect on people if it is very persuasive, especially imagery and buzz words and phrases. Hell, the last presidential election was larger won by spreading irrational fear of terrorism. The voting atmosphere should be a politically neutral environment to encourage calm, thoughtful, formal decision-making.
Also the issue of intimidation, mentioned by Val. People like Gorgo can make fun of intimidation, but voter intimidation has happened in all times and places, including in the United States, by a variety of different groups with special interests.
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"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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| Edited by - marfknox on 09/27/2006 09:03:47 |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2006 : 09:05:55 [Permalink]
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I'm not making fun of intimidation, I was trying to have fun with the Valiant one and his inability to spell.
Once again, to Noah Vail. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2006 : 09:06:06 [Permalink]
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SIDE ISSUES:
Original Intent wrote: quote:
Take that Vote GOP off your bumper, or we will slash your tires.........
I've had trouble because of my ga'zillion bumper stickers. I had both of my rearview mirrors smashed because of one that read “The Pope is fallible, the world is fillable, promote birth control.” I also get notes on my windshield from time to time due to my pro-evolution, pro-gay rights, and pro-Humanism stickers.
Dude wrote: quote:
I've gone to vote wearing a shirt that has "F*CK YOU" in bold block letters. (I used to have one that said "FUCK YOU", but FL passed some dumbass law about public display of profanity)
What!? That makes me even angrier than the voting in churches thing. Who the fuck gets to decide what is profane? That is incredibly wrong!
I was listening to one of the FCC commissioners being interviewed by Terry Gross about a week ago. The little fuckhead was talking about how he thought it was appropriate to silence the swear words spoken by characters in “Saving Private Ryan” when it is shown on network television. I guess it never occurred to him that anyone old enough to view the content of that film is old enough to hear the word “fuck”. And Terry Gross didn't even challenge him on it!
Have I said how much I fucking hate fucking censorship?
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"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2006 : 10:35:00 [Permalink]
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Wow, Marf, that sign on a voting place is illegal! Unless it was removed 24 hours before voting started. I do believe you cannot campaign at a polling location.
Election officials influencing voters is a misdemeanor.
I'm sure there is something more specific out there but no time to keep looking.
Good for you trying to get the papers to notice. I think the ACLU would get involved if you see the sign up during voting.
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| Edited by - beskeptigal on 09/27/2006 10:45:54 |
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JohnOAS
SFN Regular
Australia
800 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2006 : 15:49:44 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by marfknox
Dude wrote: quote:
I've gone to vote wearing a shirt that has "F*CK YOU" in bold block letters. (I used to have one that said "FUCK YOU", but FL passed some dumbass law about public display of profanity)
What!? That makes me even angrier than the voting in churches thing. Who the fuck gets to decide what is profane? That is incredibly wrong!
Then you need one of these:
I couldn't find their link policy, so here's a free plug just in case.
Disclaimer: I am in no way affiliated with or endorse the content on this site and if you're still reading this you really needn't bother. Honestly. No, I mean it, you can stop now. I am not a lawyer. I am not particularly fond of lawyers as a profesion. This lack of fondness is not necessarily transferable to specific instances of lawyer. |
John's just this guy, you know. |
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dglas
Skeptic Friend
Canada
397 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2006 : 17:03:22 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by marfknox
dglas wrote: quote:
Why would you have a problem with Republican signs being "too close" to a polling place?
1.) It is the law. 2.) It is a good law. We know propaganda can have an even temporary effect on people if it is very persuasive, especially imagery and buzz words and phrases. Hell, the last presidential election was larger won by spreading irrational fear of terrorism. The voting atmosphere should be a politically neutral environment to encourage calm, thoughtful, formal decision-making.
Precisely the point I was leading toward. Thank you. |
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- dglas (In the hell of 1000 unresolved subplots...)
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The Presupposition of Intrinsic Evil
+ A Self-Justificatory Framework
= The "Heart of Darkness"
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2006 : 17:22:04 [Permalink]
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marfknox said:
quote:
What!? That makes me even angrier than the voting in churches thing. Who the fuck gets to decide what is profane? That is incredibly wrong!
I agree.
It started with a law that banned profanity on bumber stickers, and was stretched from there. You can't walk around in a t-shirt that says FUCK YOU, in public places, unless you want cops to give you the option of turning it inside out or arresting you.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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