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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
 Posted - 09/08/2006 : 00:22:31 [Permalink]
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quote:
According to him the outgoing Clinton adminstration tried to brief George Bush on the danger posed by Al Queda, but he just didn't get it.
One of Richard Clarke's books details the efforts he made to get the Bush admin to recognize the terror threat.
It also details the budget cuts to the FBI counter terrorism dept and other agencies. Then Atty Gen (mr annoint myself with oil before being sworn into high office and is offended by boobs on a marble statue) blew him off bigtime.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2006 : 12:30:43 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Cuneiformist
Re this post from BSG, she quoted one of the people associated with the film as saying "you may feel we "bash" Clinton and/or you may feel we "bash" Bush..."-- has anyone heard anything from the Bush administration or the right in general about Bush-bashing? I'll admit that I'm not quite in tune (so to speak) with the AM blabosphere, and I don't read WorldNet Daily or any such, but I imagine that if there were serious objection from the Bush side, we would have heard of it!
In light of this, I think it's clear that while ABC and the people associated with this film try to make it sound as though everyone gets the blame, in fact the blame is pretty squarely placed on Clinton. Indeed, my understanding is that a key element to Bush and 9/11 is missing: him reading My Pet Goat to kids while planes smash into buildings. If they can bother to dredge up Clinton hugging Lewinsky, wouldn't it make sense to do the My Pet Goat bit?
But as BSG has shown-- and as most of the blogosphere has shown, ABC has more or less admitted that their film is "based on a true story" but, like most Hollywood productions that include such an expression, their story differs radically from reality.
Unfortunately for witless Americans everywhere, millions will watch and think that while Clinton and his staff were fellating/being fellated, or busy worrying about public reaction, Bush and his staff was trying to stop terrorists but were hindered by hapless FBI and CIA red tape.
Another nail in the coffin for real representative government in the US, and another great step forward towards the plutocracy.
Interesting discussion on the Ed Schultz show yesterday. The person interviewed was from the 9/11 Commission, and saw the first segment of the movie. He went on to say, they have grossly distorted Clinton's actions. Clinton authorized the CIA to do everything it needed to. It was the CIA that failed to act. It was none other than George Tenet who called off the hit which is falsely portrayed in the movie. But there were no CIA operatives with Bin Laden in their sights, they weren't positive Bin Laden was there, so calling off the strike was reasonable.
But the rest of the discussion was about what you have posted, Cune. It seems the Bush admin may very well cry foul when the second segment is played because it isn't so favorable to them after all. It was the belief of the 9/11 Commissioner that the movie writer and the director made Clinton look worse than he was in order to present a balanced version of events equally blaming both sides. And while the Commissioner said there were things that both sides could have done differently, the blame isn't equal. They made Clinton look bad to neutralize how bad Bush actually was.
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Original_Intent
SFN Regular
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2006 : 18:52:31 [Permalink]
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It's really too bad that they are not going back all the way to the Islamic Revolution in Iran, and taking a look at the "war" in general. Clinton and Bush failed misreably, but so did Bush Sr., Reagen, and Carter.
The only one that that I would give a pass too on that would be Carter. Although he should have hit Iran for the hostages, I don't think he had the chance to have the foresight into the larger picture.
But, since it's edutainment, it's probably better that they distort less of the already distorted history......
Peace
Joe |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2006 : 20:16:51 [Permalink]
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BSG (and other SFNers), you'll love this: quote:
The director of ABC's controversial "Path to 9/11" docudrama has ties to an evangelical Christian group whose goals include "transform[ing] Hollywood from the inside out," according to research by readers of prominent blogs.
Yikes! Can you spell p-a-r-t-i-s-a-n?
Seriously, it's clear now that even broadcast media like ABC are more or less in lock step with the RNC. Remember the right-wing backlsh CBS got when it tried to air their Regan film? They ultimtely buckled and the film was relegated to subscription TV. I have no doubt that quite the opposite will happen here: ABC will happily air their show with all its lies, and the left will be powerless to stop it.
"Liberal" media my ass! |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2006 : 20:30:21 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Cuneiformist
Remember the right-wing backlsh CBS got when it tried to air their Regan film?
You know, I wouldn't ever care if they did a slanted bio of Clinton making him out to be a sleeze bag womanizer (despite what conservatives think, Clinton is not considered to be an untouchable liberal saint).
But when they go so far as to re-write American history for partisan politcal ends, then it goes beyond the pale. Whether it's through promoting pseudohistory or pseudoscience, conservatives seem unable accept reality as it is.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 09/08/2006 20:30:50 |
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GeeMack
SFN Regular
USA
1093 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2006 : 20:53:20 [Permalink]
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Here's a bit of an update. Apparently ABC has decided to modify the show before airing.quote Yahoo! News:
ABC Tinkers with 9/11 Drama
LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Under pressure from former President Bill Clinton and the Democratic Party, ABC scrambled on Friday [September 8, 2006] to make 11th-hour changes to a miniseries suggesting he was inattentive to the Islamic militant threat that led to the September 11 attacks.
Officials at the Walt Disney Co.-owned network said they were still tinkering with the five-hour production, titled "The Path to 9/11," which is scheduled to air without commercial interruption in two parts on Sunday and Monday [September 10 and 11, 2006].
But ABC declined to say how the movie was being reshaped or whether any changes would address specific complaints lodged by Clinton, his former aides and congressional Democrats that the film contained numerous inaccuracies and distortions.
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Ghost_Skeptic
SFN Regular
Canada
510 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2006 : 01:15:05 [Permalink]
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The outrage at this and at Ann Coulter indicates that you all a bunch of microfacists who reject "other ways of knowing" such as:
Making stuff up in order to support a belief. |
"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. / You can send a kid to college but you can't make him think." - B.B. King
History is made by stupid people - The Arrogant Worms
"The greater the ignorance the greater the dogmatism." - William Osler
"Religion is the natural home of the psychopath" - Pat Condell
"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter" - Thomas Jefferson |
| Edited by - Ghost_Skeptic on 09/09/2006 01:16:01 |
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Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2006 : 13:40:32 [Permalink]
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Here's a further editorial on it from The Huffington Post.
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Diversity, independence, innovation and imagination are progressive concepts ultimately alien to the conservative mind.
"TAX AND SPEND" IS GOOD! (TAX: Wealthy corporations who won't go poor even after taxes. SPEND: On public works programs, education, the environment, improvements.) |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2006 : 22:11:20 [Permalink]
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There was some caller on Randi Rhodes (hate that show but I was too busy to get up and change the radio station after Al Franken) who was arguing the movie was free speech. I really get annoyed when the host cannot effectively rebut claims like that.
Free speech is about the right to say what you want. It isn't about allowing a media giant to produce propaganda and wield their massive power to influence an election outcome in their corporate favor. This is the same Disney company that dumped Michael Moore's F 911 movie claiming it was too political.
I'm going to have to revisit the claims Moore's movie was full of lies. Bush was on vacation. He did look like an idiot when told of the attack on the towers. The clip showing the guy drooling over how much money they were going to make in Iraq was certainly representative of what indeed did occur after the movie. Certain privileged members of the Bin Laden family and other Saudis connected to Bush were the only people who were flown out of the country when all flights were grounded. So whether the police guarding the Saudi Embassy was routine or not, the connections between Bush and the Saudis were.
The other thing which is really bothering me is reading and hearing over and over this is about Clinton's legacy. I really wonder if it is a coincidence that mask has gone up over the truth or whether it was orchestrated with talking points purposefully inserted into news and talk show interviews here and there? The issue is about distorting the Democratic Party's strength on defense. Clinton's legacy matters to Clinton and Berger and Albright but the real issue here for the citizens of the country is the impact the lies in the movie could have on the next election outcome.
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2006 : 22:54:12 [Permalink]
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Oh, and in case anyone hasn't heard yet, ABC is planning to run the movie in one large block interupted by only President Bush's address to the nation.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2006 : 03:36:13 [Permalink]
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But that ain't all; these numbskulls didn't get the any of it right. quote:
I'm just wondering when American Airlines is going to realize that it's about to be defamed in the entire English-speaking world.
As I first noted yesterday, I have the entire "Path to 9/11" video. And one of the very first scenes makes it explicitly clear that American Airlines had Mohammad Atta in its grasp, warning lights flashing on the computer screen, yet the airline simply blew off the threat and helped Atta kill 3,000 Americans.
Unfortunately, it's a total lie.
But that still ain't all: quote:
But most importantly, Disney/ABC implicated the wrong airline. And I quote the Director of the FBI:
On September 11, at 6:00 AM, Mohamed Atta and Abdul Aziz al Omari boarded a U.S. Airways flight leaving Portland, Maine en route to Boston's Logan Airport.
I am wondering: there is so much blatant misinformation that it just might backfire. I don't know much about the law covering this sort thing, but it looks to me that there is a big, fat lawsuit lurking in the shadows, to be brought forth when American Airlines realizes how badly it is getting screwed. And at that point, The Path to 9-11 will get interesting because no one but the neoconservatives like being lied to.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2006 : 03:49:10 [Permalink]
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And furthermore: quote:
Defamatory Sandy Berger scene in 9/11 show is THE culmination of the entire first half, it is IMPOSSIBLE to edit it out
by John in DC - 9/09/2006 04:33:00 PM
Okay, I just watched the Sandy Berger scene. It is beyond defamatory. The reports you've read do not do it justice.
We are 1 hour 54 minutes into the film, it is the culmination of the entire first two hours of the film. CIA agents on the ground with Commander Massoud have found bin Laden. They have him pin-pointed in a house. They are looking at the house with binoculars. They are on the phone with the CIA, that has patched in Clinton National Security Adviser Sandy Berger. Berger, like a bumbling ass, sits there, looking every which way, refusing to give them clearance to grab bin Laden who is in their literal grasp. The woman at the CIA has to lecture Berger about how intelligence works, like he's some kind of moron. Berger literally looks like a deer caught in the headlights. He's clueless, an idiot, a moron, unfit to serve in any public office - hell, I wouldn't hire the guy to mow my lawn. After a very long pause, the agents are begging Berger to take some responsibility, stop being such a wuss, stop trying to cover his chicken-shit ass, you see Berger reach forward and the phone line goes dead. Clearly Berger has ended the call. Osama gets away. And Sandy Berger is personally responsible for killing 3,000 Americans and bringing down the World Trade Center twin towers.
Curiouser & curiouser, eh?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Ghost_Skeptic
SFN Regular
Canada
510 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2006 : 15:51:29 [Permalink]
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| CBC Television is running a non-fiction documentary by Terrance Mckenna called "The Secret History of 9/11" at 7 PM on Sunday in all Canadian Time Zones. Here is a an interview with Terrance Mckenna (Real Audio Format). According to him the outgoing Clinton adminstration tried to brief George Bush on the danger posed by Al Queda, but he just didn't get it. |
"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. / You can send a kid to college but you can't make him think." - B.B. King
History is made by stupid people - The Arrogant Worms
"The greater the ignorance the greater the dogmatism." - William Osler
"Religion is the natural home of the psychopath" - Pat Condell
"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter" - Thomas Jefferson |
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2006 : 09:28:47 [Permalink]
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| What news? Is Disney going to get away with such a blatant attempt to influence an election with lies? I'm amazed at how much in the mainstream media this is NOT. GRRR! |
-Chaloobi
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2006 : 09:45:24 [Permalink]
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Despite the effect on my blood pressure, I sat through this propaganda.
The movie was worse than I thought, and not because they were more misleading about Clinton, I already knew they were going to do that. The most disturbing thing in the movie was scene after scene where the script falsely claimed this or that Constitutional law or human right prevented us from taking care of the terrorists. This was not just right wing propaganda it was fascist propaganda.
ABC aired the movie without commercials meaning ABC was the sponsor. ABC promoted violations of our Constitutional and human rights by scenes in the movie which insinuated by not illegally spying on Americans, torturing prisoners, and assassinating, without trial, persons suspected of and/or charged with acts of terrorism we failed to stop the 9/11 attack. These fictional scenes were clearly intended to influence the public to support or promote the same violations of human decency which Ashcroft, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Bush and all the other neocons have pursued since taking power.
The movie's political message was sent without rebuttal under the guise of a movie based on facts but with merely some fictional scenes. This disclaimer was carefully worded to mislead the viewer into thinking the fictional scenes did not significantly change the factual nature of the movie. The truth is the failure to stop the 9/11 terrorists was not due to constraints in our laws, except the one highlighted by the 9/11 Commission report: the law separating the CIA and FBI prevented communication between the two agencies which hindered the uncovering of the 9/11 plot. But even that wasn't the only reason chances to stop the 9/11 events were missed.
Bush is refusing to get even warrants after the fact when spying on Americans. Why is that? What is it they claim they cannot tell a single judge? Could it be it isn't only terrorists they are collecting data on?
Bush has declared torture, abducting and holding people in secret, no lawyers, trials without fair defense and on and on necessary and OK to fight terrorism. This is absurd. Any scientific evaluation of these tactics shows they aren't needed and more importantly are misguided and don't work. The claim is made, "if someone knew about a nuclear bomb isn't it justified to torture them to get information to stop the plot?" Great. How often is that the scenario this torture is occurring under? My guess is never.
Limbaugh and Fox News are already proclaiming the movie is factual and the 9/11 commission wasn't.
ABC is in a position of enormous power and influence having the bully pulpit of a television broadcast station which, since it uses publicly owned airwaves, carries the ethical if not legal charge to act responsibly regarding that power. This movie was clearly political propaganda in its worst form, that of insidious manipulation of public opinion. ABC knew full well what the intent of this movie was and since aired it without sponsors cannot even hide behind the profit motive as the reason for their decision to air it.
I urge everyone who cares about real freedom, real democracy, and real security in this country to take action to expose this movie for the propaganda it is and take some action against ABC from letter writing to boycotting all sponsors advertising on their stations. Some people are initiating legal actions against ABC where possible. Letting this country slip further into the mentality of ignoring human rights and the Constitution in the name of security is extremely dangerous. The idea we can't manage threats and terrorists without such tactics is absurd.
PS They also made just about every Arab terrorist with more than a 3 second appearance look like a trembling coward. |
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