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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
 Posted - 10/04/2006 : 05:06:30 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
More scare tactics, I got an idea, how about we let people believe what they want to believe!!
What you believe is up to you, but believing is easy so it must keep your life simple. Unencumbered by the need to honestly consider the facts supporting any assertion, or theory, that you consider dangerous to your faith. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2006 : 09:13:06 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert
1 in 5 American adults thinks the sun goes around the earth. There is no doubt that we are the most scientifically-illiterate industrialized nation on the planet.
This doesn't surprise me at all. Some years back I was shocked to learn some of my extended inlaws (descendants from KY hillbillies, but still...) didn't know that the sun was also a star and that stars were big and hot like the sun, only very far away. These were adults with children. |
-Chaloobi
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2006 : 09:14:42 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
More scare tactics, I got an idea, how about we let people believe what they want to believe!!
That works well with religion, but science is a discipline that doesn't allow you to just make stuff up and pretend it's real. |
-Chaloobi
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| Edited by - chaloobi on 10/04/2006 09:18:02 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2006 : 12:00:19 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
More scare tactics, I got an idea, how about we let people believe what they want to believe!!
V, I guess it's been a year or so now since I told you that I would not take your beliefs away from you, even if I could. If it suits you to accept the writings of ancient goatherds, entirely ignornant of all but the rudest science, and with an agenda to boot, that's ok with me. Have at it.
But do not stick your head in the sand. In that position, your ass is up in the air, and......
..... we can all guess as to what that might lead to. 
The Theory of Evolution, so vibrant and ever-changing as new evidence is discovered, is here to stay. A century and a half of picking and sniping at it, and outright lying about it, has yet to weaken it at all. The attacks it is suffering today will not change anything beyond creating pocket populations of scientific ignoramuses.
"Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence." -- Richard Dawkins.
To which I might add: "You can pick your beliefs, but not your facts."
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2006 : 12:07:45 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
<snip>The Theory of Evolution, so vibrant and ever-changing as new evidence is discovered, is here to stay. <snip>
A qualification, if I might (I hate categorical statements....) It's demise could only be accomplished by an effort that would result in nothing less than an end to civilization as we know it... |
-Chaloobi
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| Edited by - chaloobi on 10/04/2006 12:13:42 |
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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2006 : 12:53:11 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by moakley
quote:
Originally posted by verlch
More scare tactics, I got an idea, how about we let people believe what they want to believe!!
What you believe is up to you, but believing is easy so it must keep your life simple. Unencumbered by the need to honestly consider the facts supporting any assertion, or theory, that you consider dangerous to your faith.
You live in a fantasy world where creatures arise out of nothing and perpetuate their existence via nothing! |
What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2006 : 12:54:15 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by chaloobi
quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert
1 in 5 American adults thinks the sun goes around the earth. There is no doubt that we are the most scientifically-illiterate industrialized nation on the planet.
This doesn't surprise me at all. Some years back I was shocked to learn some of my extended inlaws (descendants from KY hillbillies, but still...) didn't know that the sun was also a star and that stars were big and hot like the sun, only very far away. These were adults with children.
You can thank our secular educational system for that. Keeping us stupid is the name of the game!! |
What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2006 : 13:01:15 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
quote:
Originally posted by verlch
More scare tactics, I got an idea, how about we let people believe what they want to believe!!
V, I guess it's been a year or so now since I told you that I would not take your beliefs away from you, even if I could. If it suits you to accept the writings of ancient goatherds, entirely ignornant of all but the rudest science, and with an agenda to boot, that's ok with me. Have at it.
But do not stick your head in the sand. In that position, your ass is up in the air, and......
..... we can all guess as to what that might lead to.
The Theory of Evolution, so vibrant and ever-changing as new evidence is discovered, is here to stay. A century and a half of picking and sniping at it, and outright lying about it, has yet to weaken it at all. The attacks it is suffering today will not change anything beyond creating pocket populations of scientific ignoramuses.
"Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence." -- Richard Dawkins.
To which I might add: "You can pick your beliefs, but not your facts."
If you're theory was proven, we wouldn't be set against each other in such a fashion. You are an atheist and you interpret the data to conform to your atheistic naturalistic reasoning.
Just because you throw out the evidence that doesn't conform to your naturalistic ideals, doesn't mean the whole of your theory is true, or even remotely true. (bad carbon dating, dinosaur and humans coexisting, tree roots in coal through several million years of strata, trees upright in stone, through "supposedly" millions of years worth of strata) Those anomalies are overlooked for the greater good of the Atheistic theory! Questions are not good! Evidence not supporting said theory is thrown in garbage faster than one can blink.
If you had examined all the evidence stacked against your theory, your theory would no longer exist. It is there because an unseen power wills it to exist. |
What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2006 : 13:27:06 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
[quote] You can thank our secular educational system for that. Keeping us stupid is the name of the game!!
Well, I have to agree with you there - at least with the specific school they attended. I'm pretty sure it was a public school system, assuming they didn't drop out. But also note, these are older people - in their late 50s today - so it's not a fair commentary on the quality of education today....
Further note, I went to a private Catholic school, grades 2-12, and got a pretty decent education. But note, Catholics are sensible enough to accept and teach evolution in their high school biology classes. Yep, that's right, I was taught evolution by a member of the Brother's of the Holy Cross.
Today, at least some local public schools require biology teachers to mention some caveat about evolution being only a Scientific Theory (as if that were not a profound expression of confidence, lol). Who'd have thought that the private religous institutions would be teaching better science than the public schools??? Ugh. |
-Chaloobi
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| Edited by - chaloobi on 10/04/2006 13:27:46 |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2006 : 13:40:41 [Permalink]
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quote:
Just because you throw out the evidence that doesn't conform to your naturalistic ideals, doesn't mean the whole of your theory is true, or even remotely true. (bad carbon dating, dinosaur and humans coexisting, tree roots in coal through several million years of strata, trees upright in stone, through "supposedly" millions of years worth of strata) Those anomalies are overlooked for the greater good of the Atheistic theory! Questions are not good! Evidence not supporting said theory is thrown in garbage faster than one can blink.
Just because you continue to call bat-shit insane lies "evidence" does not make it evidence.
Lying for your god does you no good. The OT god, if it were around, would have sent plague after plague upon you for your lies and deception, and for leading his children away from the truth of his creation and toward your bullshit god-in-a-box baloney.
You make baby jesus cry. |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2006 : 14:22:50 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
(bad carbon dating, dinosaur and humans coexisting, tree roots in coal through several million years of strata, trees upright in stone, through "supposedly" millions of years worth of strata) Those anomalies are overlooked for the greater good of the Atheistic theory!
No, you are busy overlooking the perfectly good reasons why your alleged "evidence against evolution" doesn't mean what you think it means (or is even completely false, like the coexistence of dinosaurs and humans), all in the name of a God who treats you with utmost disdain, verlch. You've got battered spouse syndrome with respect to your God - he plays you for a fool and you think he loves you because of it. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2006 : 17:12:32 [Permalink]
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quote:
If you're theory was proven, we wouldn't be set against each other in such a fashion. You are an atheist and you interpret the data to conform to your atheistic naturalistic reasoning.
"Atheist" doesn't have a lot of signifence for me, even though I am indeed one. It is not a religion nor even a very interesting philosophy, but merely a lable. I interperate data for it's content, not for some philosophical bullshit.
quote:
Just because you throw out the evidence that doesn't conform to your naturalistic ideals, doesn't mean the whole of your theory is true, or even remotely true. (bad carbon dating, dinosaur and humans coexisting, tree roots in coal through several million years of strata, trees upright in stone, through "supposedly" millions of years worth of strata) Those anomalies are overlooked for the greater good of the Atheistic theory! Questions are not good! Evidence not supporting said theory is thrown in garbage faster than one can blink.
Accurate and reliable evidence is never thrown out by the honest researcher, especally if it is in opposition to his hypothesis. It could show him that he is wrong and to stop wasting time, or it could send him in another, more likely direction. Of course, some fudge the data, and sooner or later, they get caught at it. And who catches them...., hmmm...? Not the churchs
We've been though the items in the bolded sentence ad nauseum. Must I dig out those references again? Wait! I have it! Go to TalkOrigins, browse the archive, and all will be made clear. 
quote:
If you had examined all the evidence stacked against your theory, your theory would no longer exist. It is there because an unseen power wills it to exist.
But V, I have examined it and found it wanting -- even ridiculous in places. Is the Book of Genesis and the virtual hurricane of pious wind that it's generated from almost everywhere scientific evidence? I think not.
Show me Dave's human/dinosaur fossil in situ. That would be hard and irrefutable evidence (actually, there has been one of these found, but it was an April Fools gag that went off without a hitch. One of the best ever!). Find me the Devonian Bunny, the Permian 'Possum. Explain to me why whales have a degenerate, pelvic girdle and snakes have a useless lung. Why is your spine so similiar to a quadraped's? Explain the stromatolites and why there are no other species associated with these 3.5 billion year old fossil cynobacteria.
In brief, quit the futile pecking at the ToE and show us what you have. Where's the beef?
See? It ain't easy. I feel a little pity for those who would refute the ToE. Their task is impossible, because they have nothing but those old books written long before there was science, when magic was an explanation for everything. They really don't have a lot to work with there, so, yeah, it makes me a little sad.
But I get over it. 
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2006 : 18:25:48 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by chaloobi
This doesn't surprise me at all. Some years back I was shocked to learn some of my extended inlaws (descendants from KY hillbillies, but still...) didn't know that the sun was also a star and that stars were big and hot like the sun, only very far away. These were adults with children.
Reminds me of the time I had to explain to this one girl that shooting stars aren't actually shooting stars, but tiny dust particles burning up in the Earth's atmosphere. I don't think she had a very firm grasp on what stars were either beyond "those little points of light in the sky."
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 10/04/2006 18:30:17 |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2006 : 18:29:46 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verlch
quote:
Originally posted by moakley
quote:
Originally posted by verlch
More scare tactics, I got an idea, how about we let people believe what they want to believe!!
What you believe is up to you, but believing is easy so it must keep your life simple. Unencumbered by the need to honestly consider the facts supporting any assertion, or theory, that you consider dangerous to your faith.
You live in a fantasy world where creatures arise out of nothing and perpetuate their existence via nothing!
Ouch. I'm wounded.
"Creatures arising out of nothing." No, evolution has nothing to say about how the first one or two replicating organism came to exist, that would be abiogenesis. Try this for an introduction on evolution.
"Creatures perpetuating themselves out of nothing." No, that would be reproduction. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2006 : 19:04:13 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert
quote:
Originally posted by chaloobi
This doesn't surprise me at all. Some years back I was shocked to learn some of my extended inlaws (descendants from KY hillbillies, but still...) didn't know that the sun was also a star and that stars were big and hot like the sun, only very far away. These were adults with children.
Reminds me of the time I had to explain to this one girl that shooting stars aren't actually shooting stars, but tiny dust particles burning up in the Earth's atmosphere. I don't think she had a very firm grasp on what stars were either beyond "those little points of light in the sky."
It's disturbing to find people who are effectively living in a different universe, yet also right next door. How does one go their whole life in modern society and never stumble across the answer to the age old question "what is a star???" It's one thing to stubbornly dispute evolution, but to not know what a star is? Illiteracy is one possibility, but there's that whole sci-fi pop culture thing on tv - you don't have to read to pick stuff up... Too much sports & porn, maybe? |
-Chaloobi
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