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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
 Posted - 10/10/2006 : 14:52:49
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Link
quote:
The State Board of Education on Tuesday approved public school curriculum guidelines that support the teaching of evolution in science classes — but not intelligent design.
Intelligent design instruction could be left for other classes in Michigan schools. But it shouldn't have a home in science class, based on the unanimously adopted guidelines.
“The intent of the board needs to be very clear,” said board member John Austin, an Ann Arbor Democrat. “Evolution is not under stress. It is not untested science.”
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by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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Neurosis
SFN Regular
USA
675 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2006 : 15:10:08 [Permalink]
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| Science wins again. I just wish the challengers would admit their defeat. |
Facts! Pssh, you can prove anything even remotely true with facts.
- Homer Simpson
[God] is an infinite nothing from nowhere with less power over our universe than the secretary of agriculture.
- Prof. Frink
Lisa: Yes, but wouldn't you rather know the truth than to delude yourself for happiness?
Marge: Well... um.... [goes outside to jump on tampoline with Homer.] |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2006 : 16:35:05 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Neurosis
Science wins again. I just wish the challengers would admit their defeat.
Me too, but they can't. They would lose every bit of their support. That's what happened to geologiest Glenn Morton. The creationists loved him until he could no longer reconcile what the earth told him with YEC beliefs. Today, they hate him for an apostate.
Every time these clowns go up against an honest school board or into court, they lose, and it discourages them not at all. They have the True Believers (tm) believing in them and it does not matter what the outcome is. As long as they ring the bellwether's bell, the sheep will follow blindly, and console them upon their loss.
Sometimes I wonder if Dembski, et al, really believe the crap they put forth, or are they just keeping those donations coming in.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2006 : 23:34:59 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Sometimes I wonder if Dembski, et al, really believe the crap they put forth, or are they just keeping those donations coming in.
They say that you should never assume malice when stupidity will suffice, but in some cases, like Dembski or Behe, I seriously doubt the persons honesty when an educated and intelligent individuals making such ignorant claims.
At least they are not honest to them selves. Mortons Demon can indeed be powerful.
Btw, Glen Morton still consider himself to be a bible believing christian (Dr Jonathan "Oh what a big PhD I have" Sarfati disagree of course). |
"Any religion that makes a form of torture into an icon that they worship seems to me a pretty sick sort of religion quite honestly"
-- Terry Jones |
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2006 : 23:43:08 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Neurosis
Science wins again. I just wish the challengers would admit their defeat.
Not bloody likely:
quote:
Richard Thompson, leader of the Thomas More Law Center in Ann Arbor, said intelligent design should have a home in science classes. The center describes its mission as defending the religious freedom of Christians.
“It would make students more knowledgeable about science and more interested in science,” he said in a phone interview. “Evolution is a theory. It's not a fact.”
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Hawks
SFN Regular
Canada
1383 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2006 : 01:19:56 [Permalink]
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| I read Dembskis uncommondescent now and then, and from what I gather, they're not even pretending that ID is science any more. But then they seem to claim that neither is evolution. I guess that's also a way to justify teaching evolution and ID in science class. Except it wouldn't be science class. It would be... I don't know. ID supporters like to think that ID does not require that the designer is supernatural, but given that an estimated (my own, granted) 99.99% (rounded down and only showing four significant figures) of ID supporters only lend their support for religious reasons, we can be pretty sure that science would actually be religious studies. Sigh... |
METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden! |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2006 : 02:29:27 [Permalink]
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One problem is that there are a scattering of people holding genuine doctorates within the various organizations. This gives them the ability to argue from authority. The fact that that authority is severly limited is easily ignored. AiG is currently touting one Kurt Wise PhD, who seems to be the Young-Earth counterpart of Discovery Institute's Jonathon Wells.
quote:
Ph.D. paleontologist endorses Creation Museum
Published October 8th, 2006 in Around AiG EMail This Post to a Friend
Answers in Genesis uses a wide range of expertise from across the USA, and other parts of the world, to review articles, museum scripts and so on to ensure scientific and biblical accuracy. We are thrilled that the Lord has provided us so much expertise from outside (and inside) the ministry.
One of the MANY scientists who have been helping us with the Creation Museum is Dr. Kurt Wise. Dr. Wise is a professor at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, KY, just one and a half hours south of Cincinnati. Dr. Wise has a Ph.D. in Paleontology from Harvard University (he studied under the late Dr. Stephen Jay Gould) and is a biblical creationist (young earth, six literal days, etc.).
Dr. Russell Moore (”second in command” at Southern) spoke to the AiG staff earlier this year, and a professor from Southern will be bringing a devotional to the staff in December.
Googling Dr. Wise in search of published research turned out to be futile. Like Wells, Sarfati, and all of the other outright liars associated with these so-called religious organizations ,including ID, he does no research in his field beyond Biblical apologetics and like bullshit.
I'll say it again: "Esoteric letters following a name do not a scientist make." But unfortunately, the True Believers(tm) don't care about research. The esoteric letters are impressive enough.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2006 : 03:02:45 [Permalink]
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Richard Dawkins on Kurt Wise - Sadly, an Honest Creationist quote:
Kurt Wise doesn't need the challenge; he volunteers that, even if all the evidence in the universe flatly contradicted Scripture, and even if he had reached the point of admitting this to himself, he would still take his stand on Scripture and deny the evidence. This leaves me, as a scientist, speechless. I cannot imagine what it must be like to have a mind capable of such doublethink.
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"Any religion that makes a form of torture into an icon that they worship seems to me a pretty sick sort of religion quite honestly"
-- Terry Jones |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2006 : 04:04:48 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Starman
Richard Dawkins on Kurt Wise - Sadly, an Honest Creationist quote:
Kurt Wise doesn't need the challenge; he volunteers that, even if all the evidence in the universe flatly contradicted Scripture, and even if he had reached the point of admitting this to himself, he would still take his stand on Scripture and deny the evidence. This leaves me, as a scientist, speechless. I cannot imagine what it must be like to have a mind capable of such doublethink.
To mine a quote: quote:
Whatever the underlying explanation, this example suggests a fascinating, if pessimistic, conclusion about human psychology. It implies that there is no sensible limit to what the human mind is capable of believing, against any amount of contrary evidence. Depending upon how many Kurt Wises are out there, it could mean that we are completely wasting our time arguing the case and presenting the evidence for evolution. We have it on the authority of a man who may well be creationism's most highly qualified and most intelligent scientist that no evidence, no matter how overwhelming, no matter how all-embracing, no matter how devastatingly convincing, can ever make any difference.
And thus, I become more skeptical, cynical, and generally disbelieving every day. There ain't no end to it and never will be.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2006 : 04:15:21 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
And thus, I become more skeptical, cynical, and generally disbelieving every day. There ain't no end to it and never will be.
The religious memes are here in our civilization to stay, there will always be those that choose ignorance instead of knowledge.
The issue is to make sure that in the future people will still have the choice to reject ignorance. |
"Any religion that makes a form of torture into an icon that they worship seems to me a pretty sick sort of religion quite honestly"
-- Terry Jones |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2006 : 05:46:54 [Permalink]
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As a former Michigan high school student I can summarize the cirriculum on evolution,
There you have it. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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Neurosis
SFN Regular
USA
675 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2006 : 09:34:03 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Starman
Not bloody likely:
quote:
Richard Thompson, leader of the Thomas More Law Center in Ann Arbor, said intelligent design should have a home in science classes. The center describes its mission as defending the religious freedom of Christians.
“It would make students more knowledgeable about science and more interested in science,” he said in a phone interview. “Evolution is a theory. It's not a fact.”
And Intelligent Design is not a theory, its an unsupported lie. |
Facts! Pssh, you can prove anything even remotely true with facts.
- Homer Simpson
[God] is an infinite nothing from nowhere with less power over our universe than the secretary of agriculture.
- Prof. Frink
Lisa: Yes, but wouldn't you rather know the truth than to delude yourself for happiness?
Marge: Well... um.... [goes outside to jump on tampoline with Homer.] |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2006 : 10:04:36 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Neurosis
quote:
Originally posted by Starman
Not bloody likely:
quote:
Richard Thompson, leader of the Thomas More Law Center in Ann Arbor, said intelligent design should have a home in science classes. The center describes its mission as defending the religious freedom of Christians.
“It would make students more knowledgeable about science and more interested in science,” he said in a phone interview. “Evolution is a theory. It's not a fact.”
And Intelligent Design is not a theory, its an unsupported lie.
In a nutshell, in a nutshell... Well said! 
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2006 : 09:05:05 [Permalink]
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| Don't forget that evidence against ID/Creationism and/or for ANY other idea can be chalked up to a Test of Faith by Satan or even by God Himself (look what God did to Job, afterall). If these folks do accept the evidence for science over Sacred Scripture, they are also rejecting their Faith and buying a ticket to Hell Fire after death. They will NEVER accept science and the fight for science will never end. |
-Chaloobi
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Cookie Parker
New Member
17 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2006 : 03:21:29 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by pleco
Link
quote:
The State Board of Education on Tuesday approved public school curriculum guidelines that support the teaching of evolution in science classes — but not intelligent design.
Intelligent design instruction could be left for other classes in Michigan schools. But it shouldn't have a home in science class, based on the unanimously adopted guidelines.
“The intent of the board needs to be very clear,” said board member John Austin, an Ann Arbor Democrat. “Evolution is not under stress. It is not untested science.”
This is a good day for intelletual stimulation still being the goal of public education. It is no wonder more and more states are seeing the light in the ID ... the theocracy approach to educating youth.
As to there being highly educated persons on both sides, I think the evidence demonstrates the location of those who support ID are educated well within the realm of the "church", as well.
For example, William Dembski is heavily educated in the Southern Baptist educational system.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Dembski
So, while "degrees" may exist, one must look to see the truly scientific degrees which give authority to scientific discussion, versus the religious degree which is promoting religion via circumventing science. |
Blaise Pascal:
To deny, to believe, and to doubt absolutely -- this is for man what running is for a horse. |
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