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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
 Posted - 11/06/2006 : 15:15:38 [Permalink]
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Well, it may not be officially "science" before it's published in a peer-reviewed journal, but that doesn't make the fins unreal. Not that you're making such a silly claim, of course. I'm not assuming it's fake, while you're not assuming it's not a fake. Both reasonable attitudes. We'll know better later, hopefully.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2006 : 16:13:38 [Permalink]
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Yesss...
Unless, of course, the animal disappears as mysteriously as it arrived. 
Forgive me, but I'm a nasty, suspicious, old man. I just don't like things that are too perfect, especially when the fossil record, as far as I know, has always shown flippers and flukes, rather than fins in cetaceans (the pectorals and dorsals in fast-swimming dolphins, et al., not withstanding).
As we all know, evolution is a far less than perfect system for developing species. Thus, such finely detailed anal fins in any
cetacean, when nothing like them has ever been recorded, not even vestiges, sets me to wondering.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Hawks
SFN Regular
Canada
1383 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2006 : 17:26:22 [Permalink]
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I wouldn't be too surprised if vestigial fins turn out to look just like the real deal. It is possible that the same genes used to make the front fins were mostly used to make the rear ones anyway (don't read too much into to it when I say that genes make things). The genes for making rear fins will therefore have been conserved through time and most of what is needed is to turn the expression of them on at the rear position. IF this is how things are, it could of course also mean that all these rear finds are, are the expression of bio-chemical pathways in the wrong cells - maybe there never were rear fins in the ancestors of dolphins (tsk, tsk).
I'm just speculating here... But it's not that unplausible . |
METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden! |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2006 : 17:34:51 [Permalink]
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Well, our friends at the Onion are way ahead of you:[quote]In an announcement with grave implications for the primacy of the species of man, marine biologists at the Hawaii Oceanographic Institute reported Monday that dolphins, or family Delphinidae, have evolved opposable thumbs on their pectoral fins.
"I believe I speak for the entire human race when I say, 'Holy fuck,'" said Oceanographic Institute director Dr. James Aoki, noting that the dolphin has a cranial capacity 40 percent greater than that of humans. "That's it for us monkeys."[.quote] |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2006 : 18:22:59 [Permalink]
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It's all a Republican/Illuminati conspiracy! We go to the polls tomorrow and they want to distract the unwary, liberal eggheads -- those who would be interested in natural history and evolution. They are trying to stifle our vote, the bastards!
Well, it won't work 'cause dugongs and manatees have pretty much the same flipper/fluke arrangement as whales and they have toenails to boot, so there! 
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2006 : 19:33:30 [Permalink]
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I'd think that for this to be significant that they would need a population that exhibits this trait, not just one specimen.
If they just have one, then it could just be wierd developemental abnormality, like 6 fingered people.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Randy
SFN Regular
USA
1990 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2006 : 19:42:43 [Permalink]
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Maybe some old DNA genetic baggage got switched on.
From our friends over at The Onion...
"Dolphins Evolve Opposable Thumbs
'Oh, Shit,' Says Humanity"
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28315
"Study: Dolphins Not So Intelligent On Land"
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/45360 |
"We are all connected; to each other biologically, to the earth chemically, to the rest of the universe atomically."
"So you're made of detritus [from exploded stars]. Get over it. Or better yet, celebrate it. After all, what nobler thought can one cherish than that the universe lives within us all?"
-Neil DeGrasse Tyson |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2006 : 20:00:48 [Permalink]
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From South Park:Stan Marsh: Dude, dolphins are intelligent and friendly.
Cartman: Intelligent and friendly on rye bread with some mayonnaise.
Stan Marsh: Dolphins are way smarter than you!
Cartman: If they're so smart, why do they live in igloos?
Stan Marsh: Dolphins don't live in igloos, that's Eskimos!
Cartman: Dolphins, Eskimos, what's the difference? It's all a bunch of tree hugging hippie crap! |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2006 : 20:16:32 [Permalink]
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I agree with Dude in his implication that this is not significant to either science or delphinidae.
Science is already fairly well informed of the cetaceans' landlubber ancestry. And this throwback vestigial feature is vanishingly unlikely to become common among future dolphins -- much less evolve once again into working hind flippers, or legs for walking. The hind limbs probably disappeared on cetaceans long ago simply because (with use of the developing tail fluke) they added nothing but drag and biological expense. They became inefficient appendages, and yet still could become injured and infected. Thus the mutant dolphin ancestors which lost the external flippers were slightly more likely to live to breeding age.
But these little flip-less flippers are very significant to one throwback species: The Creationists.
Those two little useless flippers scare the bejesus out of them! That's why they wrote that nonsense about them so quickly. They instantly understood in their lying hearts how devastating the existence of hind limbs on a cetacean is to their war against evolutionary reality. These veterans of wars on "Darwinism" once again have met the enemy, and it is reality.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2006 : 20:19:35 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
From South Park:Stan Marsh: Dude, dolphins are intelligent and friendly.
Cartman: Intelligent and friendly on rye bread with some mayonnaise.
Stan Marsh: Dolphins are way smarter than you!
Cartman: If they're so smart, why do they live in igloos?
Stan Marsh: Dolphins don't live in igloos, that's Eskimos!
Cartman: Dolphins, Eskimos, what's the difference? It's all a bunch of tree hugging hippie crap!
Gotta love Cartman. He's the utterly selfish, dangerous, fat little monster child in all of us.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2006 : 04:17:12 [Permalink]
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From NG quote:
The four-finned dolphin, now swimming in an aquarium tank in Taiji, will require considerably more study before scientists can determine what it reveals about dolphins' evolutionary history.
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"Any religion that makes a form of torture into an icon that they worship seems to me a pretty sick sort of religion quite honestly"
-- Terry Jones |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2006 : 04:39:46 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
It's all a Republican/Illuminati conspiracy! We go to the polls tomorrow and they want to distract the unwary, liberal eggheads -- those who would be interested in natural history and evolution. They are trying to stifle our vote, the bastards!
Well, it won't work 'cause dugongs and manatees have pretty much the same flipper/fluke arrangement as whales and they have toenails to boot, so there!
Beskeptigal had it right, earlier in this thread!
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2006 : 04:42:44 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Cuneiformist
Well, our friends at the Onion are way ahead of you:[quote]In an announcement with grave implications for the primacy of the species of man, marine biologists at the Hawaii Oceanographic Institute reported Monday that dolphins, or family Delphinidae, have evolved opposable thumbs on their pectoral fins.
"I believe I speak for the entire human race when I say, 'Holy fuck,'" said Oceanographic Institute director Dr. James Aoki, noting that the dolphin has a cranial capacity 40 percent greater than that of humans. "That's it for us monkeys."[.quote]
Missed this earlier. That line, "I believe I speak for the entire human race when I say, 'Holy fuck,'" was one of the funniest I've ever read in my entire life. I'm jealous.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2006 : 04:52:56 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Starman
From NG quote:
The four-finned dolphin, now swimming in an aquarium tank in Taiji, will require considerably more study before scientists can determine what it reveals about dolphins' evolutionary history.
So, it's still alive, is it? That in itself is remarkable, but I find little else to be amazed at. At best, it's a mere anomaly, proving nothing that hasn't already been proven; at worst, it's a fraud, proving nothing beyond an Oriental sense of humor.
I note that National Geographic has become cautious since archeoraptor.... Most becoming. 
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2006 : 04:56:25 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
I note that National Geographic has become cautious since archeoraptor.... Most becoming.
They also seem to think that the dolphin ancestors had fins on land. quote:
..extra set of fins that could be an evolutionary throwback to the time when the marine mammals' ancient ancestors walked on land.
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"Any religion that makes a form of torture into an icon that they worship seems to me a pretty sick sort of religion quite honestly"
-- Terry Jones |
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