|
|
|
Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
 Posted - 11/15/2006 : 06:20:31 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott
OK stop it, just stop it. Now your just rambling.
Your willingness to try and defend this character shows your just being lead along by your blind ideology. How can you actually defend this man for a position with a straight face?
I was citing a CNN article-- you obviously didn't click on the link-- that said "Murtha decries 'swift boat-style' attacks on ethics." So no, I'm not "just rambling." Instead, I'm noting that there is obviously another side to the story. Your unwillingness to consider that is hardly surprising, but that doesn't mean that you're correct. |
 |
|
|
Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2006 : 07:02:42 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by Cuneiformist
quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott
OK stop it, just stop it. Now your just rambling.
Your willingness to try and defend this character shows your just being lead along by your blind ideology. How can you actually defend this man for a position with a straight face?
I was citing a CNN article-- you obviously didn't click on the link-- that said "Murtha decries 'swift boat-style' attacks on ethics." So no, I'm not "just rambling." Instead, I'm noting that there is obviously another side to the story. Your unwillingness to consider that is hardly surprising, but that doesn't mean that you're correct.
At this point and time I am not even going to go back and lose sleep over his 1980's ethics, or lack there of. Rather I am more concerned on current events and the earmarking of $95 million in tax payer money that went to Rep. Murtha's brother and his "consulting firm." The only defense for this in your cnn article was this quote from Murtha:
"My brother was treated like everybody else."
Yeah right congressman! And from Murth's comfortably retired brother of whom was the recipient of over $95 million in tax payers money in the form of pork:
"I don't think that influences him," Kit said of his brother. "I certainly would hope not."
So Murtha gives his brother $95 million in pork and we are just to take his word that he treated his brother as he would treat any other? You would think that earmarking $95 million in tax money for your brother would somehow be a conflict in interest?
The more you defend this type of "ethics" the more you demonstrate that you critically think with your ideology.
|
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
|
|
|
|
Original_Intent
SFN Regular
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2006 : 07:27:26 [Permalink]
|
OI wrote: quote:
Come on, a know he is a Dem, but that is part of the problem...... Blast anyone but a Demm.....
What!? The last Dem president was impeached for twisting a side truth in a civil trial to cover up an affair. The last Dem presidential candidate was completely demonized for his criticism of military intervention even though he volunteered to serve in an especially dangerous manner in Vietnam and took home 4 purple hearts. Blast anyone but a Dem??? I think the Dems get plenty of blasting.
quote:
Lets see.... Halubutin bad, KSA good.... (or should I say Republicans helping Haliburton bad, Murtha helping KSA good.
Who the fuck said that?
quote:
All those other folks to choose from....... And they pick him....
What other folks to choose from? Murtha and Hoyer are the only two contenders as far as I've read.
Look, I don't want either of these guys to get the position. I'm simply pointing out that Pelosi has 2 choices and they both suck, and you guys could say the same stuff whichever one she chooses to go behind. Personally I think I'd like the policies in general that Murtha would push, but I'm also pretty pissed that Murtha sided with Republicans, blocking anti-corruption legislation, so I end up feeling pretty apathetic.
Shit, I think this is reminding me why most Americans don't vote in the first place. But Americans being so uninvolved in politics is what helps foster this kind of crap. *sigh*
[/quote]
All I was trying to point out is the "running to the defence of the Dems" that happens arund here. I am very happy you clarified your position.
I am not up on the rules of the house or Senate, but if there are only two choices, maybe it is time that the rules were changed.
[sarcasm]Maybe I am expecting too much from our leaders... honesty, integrity and what not.....[/sarcasm]
And, with due respect, the KSA and PMA comment was a refrence to Murtha's brother's company, KSA, that seems to land a lot of business from the government. Murtha being on the armed forces committee, and his brother beig a defence contractor. PMA, I am not all that up on, but apparently some curroption there as well. I will have to look it up, I was really hoping it would stand out to those who are a bit more up on it then me.
The comparrissons with Haliburton speaks for itself. I am not much of a "level of curroption" person, and I realize there will always be some, but.... curroption is curroption and should be stamped out no matter the level.
Peace
Joe |
|
|
|
Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2006 : 07:29:49 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by Cuneiformist
Except perhaps Murtha's part of a smear campaign (see, e.g. here)?
One tip off is the inclusion of this comment in the article Bill cited: "Those charges come on top of Murtha's involvement 26 years ago in the FBI's Abscam bribery sting." Uh, 26 years ago? My guess is that if he were guilty of something like bribery, he'd not be in Congress right now-- not in this climate. And indeed, CNN tells us that "Murtha also turned up in the FBI's Abscam investigation in 1980, when undercover agents offered bribes to several members of Congress. Murtha was videotaped turning down a bribe 'at this point,' and he was not charged." So he didn't take bribes, and that's evidence that he's crooked? Indeed, a quick Google-search of Jonathan Weisman shows that he's not exactly a paragon of impartiality. This blog notes that Mr Weisman often acts like an RNC shill, parroting various right-wing talking points uncritically and passing it off as news-- not that this is uncommon in today's *ahem* "liberal" press corps-- but when this type of story comes out now (it's not like Murtha's been an unknown or something), we should be, uh, skeptical.
quote:
This blog notes that Mr Weisman often acts like an RNC shill, parroting various right-wing talking points uncritically and passing it off as news-- not that this is uncommon in today's *ahem* "liberal" press corps-- but when this type of story comes out now (it's not like Murtha's been an unknown or something), we should be, uh, skeptical.
And what do your blogs say about Soros funded C.R.E.W. and their bleek assessment of Murtha? Seems like we have rightwing and leftwing watchdogs calling this guy a spade.
|
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
|
|
|
|
Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2006 : 08:16:29 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott
quote:
Originally posted by Cuneiformist
quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott
OK stop it, just stop it. Now your just rambling.
Your willingness to try and defend this character shows your just being lead along by your blind ideology. How can you actually defend this man for a position with a straight face?
I was citing a CNN article-- you obviously didn't click on the link-- that said "Murtha decries 'swift boat-style' attacks on ethics." So no, I'm not "just rambling." Instead, I'm noting that there is obviously another side to the story. Your unwillingness to consider that is hardly surprising, but that doesn't mean that you're correct.
At this point and time I am not even going to go back and lose sleep over his 1980's ethics, or lack there of. Rather I am more concerned on current events and the earmarking of $95 million in tax payer money that went to Rep. Murtha's brother and his "consulting firm." The only defense for this in your cnn article was this quote from Murtha:
"My brother was treated like everybody else."
Yeah right congressman! And from Murth's comfortably retired brother of whom was the recipient of over $95 million in tax payers money in the form of pork:
"I don't think that influences him," Kit said of his brother. "I certainly would hope not."
So Murtha gives his brother $95 million in pork and we are just to take his word that he treated his brother as he would treat any other? You would think that earmarking $95 million in tax money for your brother would somehow be a conflict in interest?
The more you defend this type of "ethics" the more you demonstrate that you critically think with your ideology.
Please note: I'm not defending anything re Murtha per se. Rather, I'm simply observing the fact that the story as you presented it was one-sided, and that it's far more complex than you've made it out to be. I have no idea if Murtha was or was not involved in ethically dubious activities. Indeed, as I like things like legal training and supoena power, I can't do much but read the swath of news stories and hope that authorities in the know get to the bottom of it. |
|
|
|
Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2006 : 08:29:08 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by Cuneiformist
quote:
Please note: I'm not defending anything re Murtha per se. Rather, I'm simply observing the fact that the story as you presented it was one-sided, and that it's far more complex than you've made it out to be. I have no idea if Murtha was or was not involved in ethically dubious activities. Indeed, as I like things like legal training and supoena power, I can't do much but read the swath of news stories and hope that authorities in the know get to the bottom of it.
But I cited a leftwing and a rightwing watchdog who both came to the same conclusion. How is that one sided? |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
|
|
|
|
HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2006 : 10:43:04 [Permalink]
|
Democrats in the House today elected Steny Hoyer of Maryland as Majority Leader. Hoyer won the vote by a 149-86 vote over John Murtha, despite Murtha's backing by the next Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi. It seems to me that Ms. Pelosi has gotten a lesson from her Democratic colleagues, one which they themselves learned from the voters this year.
Democrats are remembering that the NeoCons got their recent drubbing as much due to their corruption as from their zealous ideology. No more of the same!
(No lesson learned by the Senate GOP, meanwhile, as their election of racist Trent Lott as Whip shows.)
|
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 11/16/2006 10:49:33 |
|
|
|
Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2006 : 16:19:33 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner
Democrats are remembering that the NeoCons got their recent drubbing as much due to their corruption as from their zealous ideology. No more of the same!
(No lesson learned by the Senate GOP, meanwhile, as their election of racist Trent Lott as Whip shows.)
quote:
No more of the same!
Nope. More of the same. You seem to think we have good vs. evil here. We do not. Hoyer is as much of a character as Murtha.
From Will Bunch's Numbers Rackete: http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/news/local/16009528.htm
quote:
One candidate is ethically challenged and the other is...ethically challenged. "The culture of corruption" never dies.
And from this liberal columnist: http://www.niagarafallsreporter.com/gallagher289.html
quote:
Hoyer is far too cozy with lobbyists and corporate interests.
And a profile for both Murtha and Hoyer is here: http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/001981.php
quote:
Rep. Steny Hoyer (MD): Hoyer, an appropriator, hopes to be House Majority Leader. Unfortunately, he has an addiction to special interest money, and eagerly courts K Street donors. Hoyer has taken around $120,000 from lending institutions this cycle. It's okay to slow-dance with 'em, Steny; but don't let them take you home.
So in reality you have 149 dems voting for an ethically challenged candidate for leader and another 86 dems, including their speaker, voting for an ethically challenged candidate for leader. And the loser is…….. the American tax payer.
quote:
(No lesson learned by the Senate GOP, meanwhile, as their election of racist Trent Lott as Whip shows.)
So we know have an ethically challenged majority leader, who asspires to be speaker, and a racist whip to join the circus, otherwise known as the 110th congress. Yeeee Haaaaaa…..
|
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
|
|
|
 |
|
|
|
Topic Locked
