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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
 Posted - 01/17/2002 : 13:30:17
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It's getting worse. It appears as if homeopathic "remedies" are such a booming business that companies can now afford professional, very expensive commercials on T.V.
However, it could be that they are just using the buzz word "homeopathic", without actually being a homeopathic mixture.
It's a nasal spray that supposedly reduces the life of a cold by 71%, by delivering "ionic zinc" directly to the nasal cavity. Any of the more chemistry knowledgeable members want to tell me if this is possible or not?
http://www.zicam.com/flash/index.html
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Sum Ergo Cogito
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Xev
Skeptic Friend
USA
329 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2002 : 14:40:44 [Permalink]
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No idea about ionic zinc, but zinc itself dosen't do much for colds. Unfortunatly, finding the origional study that disproved the usefulness of zinc requires wading through tons of quackery. Quacks do as much for my stomach, and worse, than zinc does for my sinuses.
"If anyone can show me, and prove to me, that I am wrong in
thought or deed, I will gladly change. I seek the truth, which
never yet hurt anybody."- Marcus Aurelius |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2002 : 14:52:02 [Permalink]
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I've been meaning to find out the same thing.
http://www.ntskeptics.org/2001/2001june/june2001.htm#homeo is the only thing I find for a search on Zicam.
http://www.ssr.com isn't searchable anymore, at least on the web. I'm assuming it's quackery, but don't have much information without asking. You could try asking Dr. Barrett at http://www.quackwatch.com if you really want to know. Nothing at homeowatch specifically about Zicam, so I'm assuming they are lumping that with all other quackery labeled homoepathy.
"Not one human life should be expended in this reckless violence called a war against terrorism." - Howard Zinn |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2002 : 21:14:39 [Permalink]
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quote:
It's a nasal spray that supposedly reduces the life of a cold by 71%, by delivering "ionic zinc" directly to the nasal cavity. Any of the more chemistry knowledgeable members want to tell me if this is possible or not?
A couple weeks ago I had a pretty bad cold. My girlfriend said she heard about some medication that was supposed to shorten the illness by days. She went to the drug store and came back empty handed. When she saw the word "homeopathic" on the bottle she chose to leave it on the shelf....
I also ran a search and didn't come up with much. I have asked the healthfraud list I'm on for help on this.
The Evil Skeptic
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous. |
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PhDreamer
SFN Regular
USA
925 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2002 : 21:49:43 [Permalink]
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Zinc is a stable atom in several different isotopic forms but it is a natural ion (+2 charge). Basically all you would get by introducing ionic zinc into a medium would be ionic compounds with negatively charged ions. Zinc phosphide, zinc chloride, etc. Maybe these are good for something like improving the efficiency of the immune system cells but I can't imagine how an ion would be of any use by itself. Zinc is a trace mineral in the body anyway, most of the time the body is working to get rid of excess zinc.
Adventure? Excitement? A Jedi craves not these things. - Silent Bob |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2002 : 22:08:19 [Permalink]
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quote:
It's getting worse. It appears as if homeopathic "remedies" are such a booming business that companies can now afford professional, very expensive commercials on T.V.
However, it could be that they are just using the buzz word "homeopathic", without actually being a homeopathic mixture.
It's a nasal spray that supposedly reduces the life of a cold by 71%, by delivering "ionic zinc" directly to the nasal cavity. Any of the more chemistry knowledgeable members want to tell me if this is possible or not?
http://www.zicam.com/flash/index.html
Have you tried www.healthcentral.com ?
I tried a few links there and it came up with nothing but I don't have time to click all of them. Dr. Edell is the 1st to be skeptical about stuff like that. If you can't find it on his web page, try calling or listening to his radio talk show. Someone is always asking about things like that.
Rap Crap is to music what Paint by Numbers is to art!
Yes, I am NormaL!!
Carabao forever!!! |
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2002 : 23:00:36 [Permalink]
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I had heard that zinc itself had pretty much been found lacking in it's ability to help with colds, after that short, but intense, period of zinc-lozenge (however-the-hell-you-spell-it) usage.
The new buzz word in New Age "natural" remedies seem to be "ionic" (or "ionized"), so I was wondering if there was such a thing as "ionic" zinc. As usual, this little corner of the skeptic community came through in no time... thanks guys! 
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Sum Ergo Cogito |
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James
SFN Regular
USA
754 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2002 : 07:59:44 [Permalink]
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quote:
"ionic" zinc.
Sound like a bad "B" movie begging to be riffed on Mystery Science Theater 3000.
"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your common sense." -Buddha |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2002 : 08:19:03 [Permalink]
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I do not want zinc in my nasal passages.
Having done a great deal of welding, often on galvanized steel, I've had the 'zinc shakes' more times than a couple. This, actually 'zinc poisoning', is from breathing the fumes of burning zinc. Baaaad shit!
What we have here, methinks, is just another grift, possibly a dangerous one, given an overdose.
f
The more I learn about people, the better I like rattlesnakes. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2002 : 19:57:35 [Permalink]
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Here is a post from the healthfraud group in answer to my question. There may be more to come.
quote:
Read the Zicam
webpage, and discover 1) the motivation for developing the homeopathic nasal
spray is the success of oral zinc in treating colds. Now, the good studies
on oral zinc are split 50/50 on effective/ineffective. Further, homeopathy
is symptom based not treatment based. Not that that is really relevant, but
it's just funny that they are doing not only poor medicine, but poor
homeopathy as well. It's only a 2X dilution, so it is very likely that
there is a significant concentration of zinc in the gel, unlike the more
standard 10X and 200X flu formulas. 2) a double blinded study from which
the 71% number comes. The study was done by some woo-woo group. The name
is on the Zicam web page, and you can find the web page for the group from
google.
I did a medline search, and found two studies on nasal zinc. One was the
aforementioned study, and the other found 0 difference in recovery rates.
I suggested to a co-worker who told me about Zicam that he could come by
my cube and snort some Nescafe and it would be just as effective....
The Evil Skeptic
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous. |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2002 : 01:31:57 [Permalink]
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quote:
I do not want zinc in my nasal passages.
Having done a great deal of welding, often on galvanized steel, I've had the 'zinc shakes' more times than a couple. This, actually 'zinc poisoning', is from breathing the fumes of burning zinc. Baaaad shit!
What we have here, methinks, is just another grift, possibly a dangerous one, given an overdose.
f
I'm not saying you are wrong Filthy, just want to mention that we have a lot of things in small amounts in our bodies naturaly or that our bodies need that in large doses would kill us.
Rap Crap is to music what Paint by Numbers is to art!
Yes, I am NormaL!!
Carabao forever!!! |
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digz
New Member
6 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2002 : 07:04:52 [Permalink]
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I've got an old bottle here that used to contain "Dr Kilmer's Swamproot Bladder Liver and Kidney Cure",, wonder if it would be more marketable today if it was fortified with ions?
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2002 : 10:40:47 [Permalink]
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T'would probably sell better if fortified with alcohol and / or laudinum, as it probably was in the beginning. Many of the old 'patent medicines' could make you think that sick was better than well.
f
The more I learn about people, the better I like rattlesnakes. |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2002 : 19:25:30 [Permalink]
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quote:
T'would probably sell better if fortified with alcohol and / or laudinum, as it probably was in the beginning. Many of the old 'patent medicines' could make you think that sick was better than well.
f
Actually there are medications that do, do that, sort of!
Counter-irritants.(sp)
Ben-gay is an example. It 'heats' the skin so the other pain 'feels' better or like it's gone.
Rap Crap is to music what Paint by Numbers is to art!
Yes, I am NormaL!!
Carabao forever!!! |
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