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Orwellingly Yurz
SFN Regular
USA
529 Posts |
 Posted - 12/14/2006 : 17:15:41
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YO! Just THIS In from Subtext News...
(Washington)---The Bush Administration continued today balancing the conflicting expectations of an overwhelming majority of the U.S. public and the Saudi royal family. Americans are demanding the president pull out our troops in Iraq while the oil-rich Saudi elite are threatening the White House it must maintain U.S. presence in Mesopotamia.
Experts indicate it is clear that Vice-President Cheney received his marching orders in Riyadh just two weeks ago and has, likely, already issued a directive to his subordinate president to significantly beef-up troop levels.
Meanwhile, in Baghdad, U.S. Senators John McCain and Joseph Lieberman declared it Leather Jacket and Blue Shirt Day. Neither senator complained, though, about his ass being red from riding too many fences.
Film at 11...right here on Subtext News Channel.
OY done saying.
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"The modern conservative...is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy. That is the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."
--John Kenneth Galbraith
If dogs run free
Then what must be,
Must be...
And that is all
--Bob Dylan
The neo-cons have gotten welfare for themselves down to a fine art.
--me
"The meek shall inherit the earth, but not the mineral rights."
--J. Paul Getty
"The great thing about Art isn't what it give us, but what we become through it."
--Oscar Wilde
"We have Art in order not to die of life."
--Albert Camus
"I cling like a miser to the freedom I lose when surrounded by an abundance of things."
--Albert Camus
"Experience is the name so many people give to their mistakes."
--Oscar Wilde |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2006 : 12:13:19 [Permalink]
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I don't think the Saudis needed to weigh in. Bush has already said he thought God guided his decisions. Bush cannot change course without facing the fact either God was wrong or God was not guiding Bush after all. I doubt Bush could get a, "God is testing me" out of this other than to think the test was to stay in Iraq and have faith God would prove Bush right and rescue him from the mess he created.
And none of these guys wants to leave because to do so is to give up our theft of the oil there. Bush would have to give up everything he went there for (none of which was terrorism): control of a US puppet government, control of the oil resources and money for all the crony companies involved in taking the spoils of war and bilking the American taxpayers.
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Mycroft
Skeptic Friend
USA
427 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2006 : 07:36:44 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
I don't think the Saudis needed to weigh in. Bush has already said he thought God guided his decisions. Bush cannot change course without facing the fact either God was wrong or God was not guiding Bush after all. I doubt Bush could get a, "God is testing me" out of this other than to think the test was to stay in Iraq and have faith God would prove Bush right and rescue him from the mess he created.
Many people talk about God without being total religious fanatics. You seem to be placing much more emphasis on a few comments from Bush than they warrent.
quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigalAnd none of these guys wants to leave because to do so is to give up our theft of the oil there. Bush would have to give up everything he went there for (none of which was terrorism): control of a US puppet government, control of the oil resources and money for all the crony companies involved in taking the spoils of war and bilking the American taxpayers.
In what sense was there a "theft of oil"? |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 12/21/2006 : 00:01:46 [Permalink]
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| Mycroft, it is hardly a few comments by Bush. Try looking a little more into his Governorship, his personal donations to Evangelical groups, adding a faith based department to every branch of government, saying he talks to a higher father when asked if he consulted with his own father, and on and on and on. How can you think he isn't on a "god is guiding me" trip? |
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Mycroft
Skeptic Friend
USA
427 Posts |
Posted - 12/21/2006 : 08:42:54 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
Mycroft, it is hardly a few comments by Bush. Try looking a little more into his Governorship, his personal donations to Evangelical groups, adding a faith based department to every branch of government, saying he talks to a higher father when asked if he consulted with his own father, and on and on and on. How can you think he isn't on a "god is guiding me" trip?
I have looked into those things. This topic has been raised more than once on the JREF forums.
If I were to claim that God "guides" my decisions, that claim could mean many different things. It could mean I'm schizophrenic and quite literally hear a voice I believe to be God telling me what to do, or it could mean that I make important decisions after serious reflection where I consider carefully the principles of right and wrong that were shaped, in part, by my religion.
When you consider further that we're discussing a career politician who needs the approval of a constituency that has many people who are strongly religious, the actual meaning of any such words becomes even more ambiguous.
You're making a specific charge that the POTUS is mentally ill and/or delusional and that is simply not supported by evidence.
Also, I'm interested in your “stealing oil” comment. What exactly does that mean? Are we literally taking Iraqi oil and pumping it onto tankers and taking it without paying for it?
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perrodetokio
Skeptic Friend
275 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2006 : 09:12:24 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Mycroft
Are we literally taking Iraqi oil and pumping it onto tankers and taking it without paying for it?
No. Just giving the contracts to exploit the resources to Bush´s ¨friends".
Cheers! |
"Yes I have a belief in a creator/God but do not know that he exists." Bill Scott
"They are still mosquitoes! They did not turn into whales or lizards or anything else. They are still mosquitoes!..." Bill Scott
"We should have millions of missing links or transition fossils showing a fish turning into a philosopher..." Bill Scott |
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Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2006 : 13:43:31 [Permalink]
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| Bush's bosses, the Saudi Royals have threatened to lower the price of oil if Bush pulls troops out of Iraq. That's no threat to us but it is to Bush and his oil buddies. |
Diversity, independence, innovation and imagination are progressive concepts ultimately alien to the conservative mind.
"TAX AND SPEND" IS GOOD! (TAX: Wealthy corporations who won't go poor even after taxes. SPEND: On public works programs, education, the environment, improvements.) |
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2006 : 09:27:26 [Permalink]
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Troop Surge = Escalation. Who are they kidding? Not me.
Choices choices choices.....
Pick a side in the Civil War?
Choose the Shia and you participate in setting up an Iranian Client state plus be at odds with the Sunni states in the region including Saudi Arabia.
Choose the Sunni and you subvert Iraqi 'democracy' and put yourself at odds with the government you set up. Totally untennable.
Choose the Kurds and the Turks, Georgians and Iranians do a geo-political back flip. Though these guys seem to be the most reasonable and to have it most together in every way, they are reviled by every neighbor because the neighboring countries all occupy a bit of what used to be Kurdistan.
Summarily Pull Out?
Civil war, Oh Boy! But not just the one now confined to Iraq. It would be war between Shia and Sunni throughout the region, with the Iranians, Saudi's, Jordanians, Syrians at least involved. And Turkey might take the opportunity to solve what it considers the 'Kurdish Problem.' The result would be a decade or more viscous carnage, likely interupted oil supplies, plenty of terrorist training, and an uncertain eventual result.
Escalate!
If we did the Sunnis like we did the Japanese in 1945, the war could be won. Of course fire bombing every major metro area to ash and dust until the bad guys say uncle might be perceived as genocide in this day and age. It would be a geo-political disaster, I'm sure. And Arab culture being one of obligatory revenge, it's not entirely clear they'd ever quit fighting so long as they could. Besides, we can't afford this - not with the tax structure we currently have. And as soon as it's going to hit GW's constituents in the pocket, well, that'll be that.
What's that leave?
Train up the Iraqi army and as they stand up, we stand down? In fact, this is tantamount to taking the Shia side. The guys we're training are butchering Sunni's in Baghdad right now. And we're fighting the Civil War for them in Anbar without even a believable Shia thankyou.
Involve the UN as a neutral arbiter so the US can pull out? Yeah, right. The UN isn't stupid nor are they nasty enough to fight this war. The Iraqi resistance would love to kill more blue helmets - they don't care who they get to kill though I'm certain they really like the opportunity to blow up Americans.
Conclusion
Good old GW (Paul Wolfawicz, really. It was his idea, though President Dumb Dumb's the one who made it a reality) has got us in a true No Win Scenario. One thing is certain, the result WILL be many many more dead. |
-Chaloobi
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