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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
 Posted - 06/04/2001 : 18:34:20
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They are now threatening foreign workers with stoning for breaking their long list of rules. Hindus are now required to wear the identifying badges.
Taleban 'to get tough on foreigners'
He's YOUR god, they're YOUR rules, YOU burn in hell!
Edited by - Boron10 on 07/04/2001 21:55:12
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Lisa
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2001 : 01:36:18 [Permalink]
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This is so bad. I have strong feelings on this, and they are very very bad. I'll probably get flamed for this, but I have pretty thick skin. Get what women who want to leave out of the country. That probably includes most of them. Then, let them breed themselves into non-exsistance. They're praying like crazy for the drought to end. That's nice. They'll die. They don't want to be a part of the world community, fine. Aid workers should leave immediately. A thousand Taliban members are not worth the life of one caring individual who is honestly trying to help people.
Lisa
Chaos...Confusion...Destruction...My Work Here Is Done |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2001 : 01:45:22 [Permalink]
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Unfortunately, women aren't allowed on the streets by themselves, they must be escorted by a male family member. So I wouldn't even want to think of the logistics involved there. Yeah, pull all aid workers out NOW! To much danger for them there with this witch hunt going on.
He's YOUR god, they're YOUR rules, YOU burn in hell! |
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Lisa
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2001 : 03:41:12 [Permalink]
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And when the aid workers go, the people will lose an important lifeline. I've also read that many female babies are strangled at birth.
In the next decade or two, they'll have to resort to border raids for "breeding stock". Their neighbors will not stand for this and will unite against them. They'll be crushed and the Taliban will be nothing be a sad, violent footnote to history
Lisa
Chaos...Confusion...Destruction...My Work Here Is Done |
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shank
New Member
Singapore
9 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2001 : 10:12:09 [Permalink]
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The Taliban is primarily created by the USA, who indoctrinated them in Islamic fanaticism to remove the Russians.
Now the Russians are all gone, the violent Islam is left - a threat to all the countries around it.
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Lisa
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2001 : 11:49:04 [Permalink]
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quote:
The Taliban is primarily created by the USA, who indoctrinated them in Islamic fanaticism to remove the Russians.
The way I understand it, we were so amped on spanking the Russians, we just threw our support at the strongest faction that was fighting the Russians. In the "what were they thinking department", I'd say we really backed the wrong horse with this one.
Lisa
Chaos...Confusion...Destruction...My Work Here Is Done |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2001 : 11:49:22 [Permalink]
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quote:
The Taliban is primarily created by the USA, who indoctrinated them in Islamic fanaticism to remove the Russians.
I'd like to know where you got this information. I did a bit of research (not much mind) on the Taliban. The Mujahiden (I know I just butchered the spelling...) may have been US backed, but the Taliban was only one small part of the whole.
Now, I understand the US does a lot that we later have to deal with in this vein. Just would like to know where it came from.
He's YOUR god, they're YOUR rules, YOU burn in hell! |
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2001 : 11:50:09 [Permalink]
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quote:
The Taliban is primarily created by the USA, who indoctrinated them in Islamic fanaticism to remove the Russians.
Shank I thought they whipped people with canes in Singapore for spouting bullshit like this.
What are you sources for this information about this supposed United States intelligence
snafu?
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The brain that was stolen from my laboratory was a criminal brain. Only evil will come from it. |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2001 : 12:38:37 [Permalink]
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As a military and political force, the Taliban surfaced in Qandahar in 1994 when Afghanistan was plagued by a vicious civil war. The main military struggle at that time was taking place in Kabul between the forces of Burhanuddin Rabbani and his military commander Ahmad Shah Masood and their allies on one side and the forces of Gulbuddin Hekmatyar and his allies on the other side. As a result, about two thirds of Kabul was razed to the ground resembling "an archeological site" with a UN estimated deaths of 50,000 civilians. The rest of the country was taken by warlords and petty chieftains who ruled their areas with a free-for-all attitude. The Amnesty International 1995 annual report about Afghanistan begins with terrifying accounts.
The cycle of violence, destruction, and chaos of the Mujahideen era created the condition for the rise of the puritanical Taliban. There are several versions of how a small group of taliban, led by Mullah Muhammad Omar took control of areas around Qandahar in 1994.
According to the most widely circulated account amongst the residents of Qandahar, a group of "madrasee" (belonging or originating from a Madrasa) taliban, headed by Mullah Mohammad Omar arrived in Afghanistan with the intent to re-establish law and order and to re-organize themselves. They took residence in a school near Dand in Qandahar. On September 20, 1994, an Afghan family on its way to Herat from Qandahar, was looted, its male members molested, and its female members were raped by gangs manning one of the so-called "check points" along the route. One of the victims escapes and reaches the newly established Taliban compound. The story goes that Mullah Omar and his followers rushed to the scene, capturing the perpetrators, executing them on the spot and then collecting and burying the bodies of the victims. It is this faithful incident, the Taliban claim, that marked the beginning of their campaign in Afghanistan. The Taliban then moved in and disarmed other groups in the area. They began consolidating their position and procuring weapons by winning the allegiance of several local military commanders. Among the groups who surrendered to the Taliban (through a peaceful arrangement) was that of Mullah Naqib, who along with a group of other warlords, had divided up the province amongst themselves. One of these warlords was Lalai, a former thief and "Sarbaz" (communist militia) who had defected to the Mojahedin during the Jihad era and had now become a post Jihad era warlord of a sector of Qandahar. While there is no a consensus about the triggering events that would mark the rise of the Taliban, it is clear that the initial popularity of the Taliban was due to the complete collapse of law and order under the so called Mujahideen era, which had officially begun in 1992.
Pakistan had hoped that a peaceful travel of the convoy would make the route more attractive to foreign investors and signal the start of new trading routes. In fact, while the arrangement for the convoy was being finalized on October 20, 1994, General Babar, Interior Minister of Pakistan, took Western ambassadors to Herat, which was at the time ruled by General Ismael Khan (a well-known commander of Prof. Rabbani's Jamiat-i Islami organization). Babar's goal was to showcase Afghanistan as a safe trade route between Pakistan and the Central Asia. The ambassadors were from such countries as the USA, China, Japan, Spain, France, and Germany. The entourage included Prof. Burhanudin Rabbani's Ambassador to Islamabad. Taliban's rescue of the convoy and their subsequent establishment of law and order in the areas under their control demonstrated that they would be the guardians of this new trading route, a role for which they are believed to have received extensive military support from Pakistan.
The concept of the organization of the Taliban is primordial to all other Islamic movements and organizations throughout the Islamic world such as the Ikhwan-ul-Muslimeen and that of Wahabism. For instance, the teachings of Mohammad Bin Abdulwahab, the founding father of the Wahabi religious sect, and the beliefs associated with him, date back only to 1744, or when Abdulwahab started teaching in exile in the sanctuary of Mohammad Bin Saud. The rest of the prominent Islamic schools of thought and organizations have an even more recent origin. The Madrasa of Daiwband, for instance, was founded by Mohammad Abed Hussain 93 years after Abdulwahab in Saharanpoor of Otra Pardish in India. Similarly, Hassan-ul-Bana, the founding father of the famous Ikhwan-ul-Muslimian was born after in 1877 in Cairo and Sayed Jamaludin Afghani, a prominent Afghan scholar, initially a Talib, from Afghanistan, became advisor to Mohammad Azam Khan in Kandahar around 1838.
The organization of the Taliban and Mullahs has historically proven to be the front line defender of the national integrity and the religion of Islam. Contemporary Afghan history is littered with records of the vital roles which the forces of the Taliban and Mullahs have played as front line soldiers in all major wars in the Afghan history. During the Second British-Afghan war of 1879, it was Mullah Din Mohammad, better known as Mullah Moshki Alam, who proclaimed Jihad against the British and was leading the Taliban forces in the Kabul Uprising, fighting in the company of Mohammad Jan Khan. It was also Mullah Moshki Alam's son, Mullah Abdul Karim, who fulminated against the rule of Amir Abduranhman Khan and his actions, seen to be contrary to the Islamic teachings.
http://www.afghan-politics.org/Reference/Taliban/Taliban_main.htm
The Taliban pre-dates the US here. Economic support for the Taliban came from Pakistan. No this is just preliminary....
The Mujahideen was backed against the Russians. Of which the Taliban was a small part and the current Taliban regime of Mullah Omar is a fairly recent arrival on the scene. So, your statement of the US backing the current Taliban regime is IMO without merit.
He's YOUR god, they're YOUR rules, YOU burn in hell! |
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Lisa
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2001 : 13:51:49 [Permalink]
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You'e right. All I could really remember about the whole mess is the massive amount of arms we shipped over there. Another fine example of our "war by proxy" against the Russians. I remember it was one of the bloodiest and most vicious campaigns in history, but other than the US crowing about Russia getting it's clock cleaned, the whole thing really received little press.
Ever notice that so many of the folks we supplied weapons to are now pointing them back at us? That's what I've never understood about our foreign policies. (Although we seem to change policy more often than I change my socks). Does anyone ever think things the whole way through before our government decides to back a faction in (insert country name here)?
Think I'll start a new thread under politics on the whole Balken/former Yugoslavia/Macedonian situation. A skeptical crowd should have fun peering 10-20 years into the future and making some guesses about what mapmakers will be doing.
Lisa
Chaos...Confusion...Destruction...My Work Here Is Done |
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Boron10
Religion Moderator
USA
1266 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2001 : 02:50:18 [Permalink]
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BTW, Shank, please do not take Slater's request for sources as an attack. It is the way he "talks." It is just customary here, when presenting an idea that may not be agreed with, to establish yourself as a reliable source (usually by referring to referenced documents).
-Timmy! |
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shank
New Member
Singapore
9 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2001 : 09:06:28 [Permalink]
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>The Mujahideen was backed against the >Russians. Of which the Taliban was a small >part and the current Taliban regime of >Mullah Omar is a fairly recent arrival on >the scene. So, your statement of the US >backing the current Taliban regime is IMO >without merit.
What I meant that a climate of Islamic fundamntalism was encouraged in Pakistan and Afganistan by USA in the 1980's. Taliban is a fruit of this. Osama Bin Laden is a fruit of this. You can argue and nitpick on the fine details but US has a significant role in destabilising the region.
President Zia of Pakistan, military dictator, started Islamiszing Pakistan in the 1980's with US blessing. Islamic public hangings, floggings were all carried out without any of protest from the US. Now things have burgeoned in Pakistan that it is being called 'new hub of internationl terrorism' in State Department report. Taliban is sponsored and supported by ths very same country, the darling of the USA.
Meanwhile in the Balkans, US is foolishly arming Islamist Albanian/Bosnian guerilla for paltry gains against Serbia. The price Europe has to pay with future Islamic guerilla movements in its heartland will be heavy (already happening in Macedonia). Islamists rejoiced when Mislosevic was grought to Hague for trial. Try asking them to let Bin Laden for trial in the Hague. Will Americans never learn?
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Garrette
SFN Regular
USA
562 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2001 : 09:51:23 [Permalink]
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quote:
Will Americans never learn?
We are the masters of not learning from the past and of looking for short term gain in the face of long term disadvantage.
My kids still love me. |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2001 : 23:02:21 [Permalink]
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Despite the USs shortsightedness in international politics (which I will agree with....) you have yet to show any proof for your statement. Please provide links!
Or am I to believe nothing but your say so on this issue?
He's YOUR god, they're YOUR rules, YOU burn in hell! |
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shank
New Member
Singapore
9 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2001 : 02:17:36 [Permalink]
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Proof for what? That Gen Zia was supported by the US against Soviet occupation in Afgan. Does this have to be proved mathematically? Pity
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2001 : 15:06:17 [Permalink]
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No but documentation. Something besides your say so that supports your position. Links to documents, reliable sources....
This is more than an issue to be discussed on opinion. There was a debate under Politics about Iraq. Gorgo, Garrette and I all provided links to information supporting and in some instances not supporting our points of view. That's what we're asking for here.
He's YOUR god, they're YOUR rules, YOU burn in hell! |
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