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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
 Posted - 02/13/2007 : 12:34:43
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http://www.comcast.net/news/politics/index.jsp?cat=POLITICS&fn=/2007/02/13/585947.html&cvqh=itn_obama
quote:
NASHUA, N.H. - Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama is apologizing for saying the lives of the more than 3,000 U.S. troops killed in the Iraq war were "wasted."
During his first campaign trip this weekend, the Illinois senator told a crowd in Iowa: "We now have spent $400 billion and have seen over 3,000 lives of the bravest young Americans wasted."
There you go. Money and lives spent in the name of empire are never wasted. Just, well, frittered away.
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I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Neurosis
SFN Regular
USA
675 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2007 : 12:50:57 [Permalink]
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| Politics are politics. People care more about the emotional impact of what one says than the accuracy. |
Facts! Pssh, you can prove anything even remotely true with facts.
- Homer Simpson
[God] is an infinite nothing from nowhere with less power over our universe than the secretary of agriculture.
- Prof. Frink
Lisa: Yes, but wouldn't you rather know the truth than to delude yourself for happiness?
Marge: Well... um.... [goes outside to jump on tampoline with Homer.] |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2007 : 13:20:07 [Permalink]
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I would have liked to have seen Obama show spine and stand up to the criticism, by showing how (while expressing careful sympathy and respect to the dead) the lives were wasted. He could have welcomed the attention, and made it an educational issue.
Obama could have used theattacks and boomeranged them back at his opponents. Instead, it seems he's playing the usual, "watch the polls, but don't change 'em" kind of politics. This isn't just a critique of Obama, but would apply to most politicians. The are afraid of leading often-ignorant public opinion, and so end up its impotent followers. I like how Gore took up GW when against the recommendation of his advisers, and eventually made the issue not only better known, but a plus for his likely candidacy.
It's not that I expected better from Obama, but one can always wish.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2007 : 14:24:59 [Permalink]
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I suppose Neurosis is right to an extent, because there is an emotional impact to hearing that one's life was "wasted" when it's lost in combat. This can be opposed to, for example, a teen who spent several years on drugs before finally dying of an overdose. Some searching on Google shows (e.g. here) that it's not uncommon to say that such a teen's life was wasted. We also use the expression with less emotional impact when we talk about it in less literal ways. A person might say "I wasted four years of my life" and be referring to work at a company, a bad relationship, graduate school, and so on.
But talking about the lives of soldiers in Iraq which are "wasted" has impact. But is it wrong? If you're going to argue that the justification for war was not only questionable, but in fact fabricated, and if you're going to point out that everything about the management of the occupation has been almost criminally incompetant, then one can make the case that the lives of soliders who die there as being wasted.
If one says 'I'm going to Iraq to protect the US from WMDs and I'll give my life to make sure it's protected' and after you die we find out that there were no WMDs, isn't it possible to argue that the person's life was wasted?
Of course, even if that's so a politician might find it wiser to use different terms to avoid the negative impact of saying such things, but I don't think it's completely wrong. |
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Neurosis
SFN Regular
USA
675 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2007 : 14:56:19 [Permalink]
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| The reason why this so often fails Cune is the same as why an atheist cannot be elected despite the utter inapplicability of religion to serving politically, even as the president. People vote with their hearts. People often even think with their hearts also. |
Facts! Pssh, you can prove anything even remotely true with facts.
- Homer Simpson
[God] is an infinite nothing from nowhere with less power over our universe than the secretary of agriculture.
- Prof. Frink
Lisa: Yes, but wouldn't you rather know the truth than to delude yourself for happiness?
Marge: Well... um.... [goes outside to jump on tampoline with Homer.] |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2007 : 15:06:23 [Permalink]
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quote:
Of course, even if that's so a politician might find it wiser to use different terms to avoid the negative impact of saying such things, but I don't think it's completely wrong.
What it says is that George Bush himself can mow soldiers down by the thousands with a machine gun, and it's all good. To say anything else would be to say that every "Troop" is not brave, courageous and godlike. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2007 : 16:02:35 [Permalink]
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| I see Cune's point, but think that anyone would know what he meant by the term wasted. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2007 : 17:13:15 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo
I see Cune's point, but think that anyone would know what he meant by the term wasted.
I agree, Gorgo, that anyone should understand what Obama meant. But since I don't have children, let alone a child who served-- and died-- in Iraq, I don't know how I'd react to that. But as I said, it's hard to argue how such deaths aren't a waste given that the main justifications about the invasion were wrong, and how every aspect of the occupation has been completely mishandled. |
| Edited by - Cuneiformist on 02/13/2007 17:13:54 |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2007 : 13:05:13 [Permalink]
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I agree with Obama. Those who have died in Iraq have had their lives wasted by the people in charge.
We have accomplished... nothing. It is common useage to talk of casualties as "spent" lives, when speaking of wars. Because it is true. When you fight a war the cost is the lives of soldiers.
All I want to know is when will these jackass democrats grow a spine and stop backing down in the face of the republican spin machine.
Obama said "wasted" lives, he meant it, he was right.... but now he apologizes for saying it... basically he just conceded a strong argument against the war, and if he tries to reverse his position again the media will devour him.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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