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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
 Posted - 02/16/2007 : 15:46:37
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For those of you uninformed about this incredible story, Natalie Maines made the comment just after Bush's re-election, "Just so you know, we're on the good side with y'all. We do not want this war, this violence, and we're ashamed that the President of the United States is from Texas."
Typical of the right wing smear campaign army which shouts about anything they can to take the heat off Bush, the Dixie Chicks were made into the country music scene's punching bags. A website called The Free Rebublic was responsible for a lot of the negative campaign.
In addition, the affair spilled over into Congressional hearings on media consolidation which I believe are still going on. From Democracy Now news report on the events:quote:
AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to go to a clip of -- well, it goes to the issue of media concentration, as well. Which were the networks that were going after the Dixie Chicks? This is a congressional hearing, a Senate hearing, that is being run by Senator McCain of Arizona.
SEN. JOHN McCAIN: …continues its series of hearings examining media ownership by returning to the topic that started it all: radio.
SIMON RENSHAW: As a result of statements made by members of the Dixie Chicks at a concert, two radio networks -- Cox and Cumulus -- banned the Dixie Chicks from their play lists at a chain level.
LEWIS DICKEY: Mr. Chairman, first of all, Mr. Renshaw refers to radio companies as networks, and we are not networks. We are a confederation of 270 individual stations in 55 cities --
SEN. JOHN McCAIN: You made a decision from corporate headquarters that was binding on your deejays, and just prior to that you say that you're a group of independent radio stations. That's a total contradiction, Mr. Dickey.
LEWIS DICKEY: I think that mischaracterizes it. As I mentioned, this was a collaborative decision-making process. Everybody fell in line. This was a unanimous overwhelming decision.
SEN. JOHN McCAIN: “Fell in line.” I understand.
SEN. BARBARA BOXER: Do you think what you did sent any type of a chilling message to people that they ought to shut up and not express their views one way or other?
LEWIS DICKEY: I would hope not.
SEN. BARBARA BOXER: OK.
McCain and Boxer's comments, "I understand" and "OK" were sarcastic.
The group rebounded quite quickly and sales of their CDs outside of the country scene as well as inside have just soared. They began writing their own music and they wrote and produced an incredible song, "Not Ready to Make Nice" which was about the whole affair. It came out last summer.
The lyrics that I found so moving were,
"It's a sad sad story
That a mother will teach her daughter
That she ought to hate a perfect stranger.
And how in the world
Can the words that I said
Send somebody so over the edge
That they'd write me a letter
Saying that I better shut up and sing
Or my life will be over"
Critics like this creep tried campaigning against it. Of course, Fox news had it's expected response described in this blog which rebuts the Fox selective comments.
But as Natalie commented on the Grammy awards night, [Nelson from the Simpson's]Ha ha![/Nelson] The song and album won the Dixie Chicks 5 Grammys, "Album of the Year", "Record of the Year", "Song of the Year", "Best Country Album", and "Best Country Performance By a Duo or Group". Sales are hug
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2007 : 16:45:15 [Permalink]
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It occurs to me that if Willie Nelson or the late Waylon Jennings had said what the Chicks said, it wouldn't have raised an eyebrow. Sure, some people might have been pissed off, but so what? They were outlaws. No one would have banned their records…
Under all the politics, I believe that sexism was at play in the reaction to the Dixie Chicks speaking out. They were supposed to be cute, ya know?
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2007 : 18:07:57 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Kil
It occurs to me that if Willie Nelson or the late Waylon Jennings had said what the Chicks said, it wouldn't have raised an eyebrow. Sure, some people might have been pissed off, but so what? They were outlaws. No one would have banned their records…
Under all the politics, I believe that sexism was at play in the reaction to the Dixie Chicks speaking out. They were supposed to be cute, ya know?
You hit the nail right on the head. And the Right loves to especially demonize effective women who speak out against them. Bad enough crap they use against their male opponents, but for women, they spew their vilest venom. Like with the latest false charges from that Moonie lie factory, the Washington Times, where they claimed Pelosi demanded huge jet to herself from the government for a trip to CA. Actually, the plane trip was set up by a nonpartisan congressional office, without Pelosi ever asking for a big plane. The big plane choice was for security reasons.
It's always, "Look, she's too weak to be a leader." Then, when they show some spine, it's "Crazy, power-hungry dike bitch." The point being, their targets can't win by those sexist rules.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2007 : 18:40:25 [Permalink]
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| I'd rather their Grammy win not be linked in any way to the crap they got from the country music back-lash. They're a talented group, but it would suck wholesale if some sort of political statements were behind their win. Indeed, it would justify some of the tired far-right arguments that the mainstream entertainment industry is leftist and liberal. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2007 : 19:15:09 [Permalink]
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I doubt they won their Grammies for political reasons. Their singing is fine enough.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2007 : 19:37:41 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Cuneiformist
I'd rather their Grammy win not be linked in any way to the crap they got from the country music back-lash. They're a talented group, but it would suck wholesale if some sort of political statements were behind their win. Indeed, it would justify some of the tired far-right arguments that the mainstream entertainment industry is leftist and liberal.
I don't know how/who picks the winners but the Grammys are not especially known as some liberal focus group. The music awards really stretch to all sorts of groups and politics.
With Oscars you have a bit of documentary and some animation for variety but mostly the audience is homogeneous. With music awards you have jazz, hip-hop, rock, country, and blues with very different audiences.
I could have been imagining it but it seemed there were a few frowns on a few faces with cowboy hats on when they panned the crowd at the Grammy ceremony when the DChicks were on stage getting awards. I think it would be silly to think these were political awards.
I love the song, "Not Ready to Make Nice". Have you heard it?
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| Edited by - beskeptigal on 02/16/2007 19:38:08 |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2007 : 19:40:42 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Cuneiformist
I'd rather their Grammy win not be linked in any way to the crap they got from the country music back-lash. They're a talented group, but it would suck wholesale if some sort of political statements were behind their win. Indeed, it would justify some of the tired far-right arguments that the mainstream entertainment industry is leftist and liberal.
Listen to the album. It really is great... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2007 : 19:49:41 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
I love the song, "Not Ready to Make Nice". Have you heard it?
BSG, I downloaded it to my iTunes a long time ago, and have several earlier albums. No worries. But the several conservative outlets tried early on to frame their win in political terms (i.e. the "liberal" entertainment industry rewarding anti-Bush sentiment) and even mainstream media made subtle overtures as well (witness the New York Times editorial, where they suggested that the Grammy "endorsement was about three years too late").
So I'm not knocking the Dixie Chicks at all. Rather I am simply aruging that sometimes their Grammy win is portrayed as some sort of vindication of their political stance, when it really should be simply an acknowledgement of their talent. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2007 : 19:59:20 [Permalink]
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From their website:quote:
Dixie Chicks are the highest selling female group in any genre. They hold the distinction of being the only country group in history and the only female group of any genre to earn back-to-back Diamond Awards signifying 10 million in record sales.
2003 - Top Of The World Tour
The “Top Of The World Tour” kicked off in the U.S. May 2003. The tour set a record for the highest one-day sales in Ticketmaster history. Taking in more than $62 million, the tour ended not only as the top country tour of the year but also as the best country one-year gross ever.
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2007 : 20:14:28 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Kil
quote:
Originally posted by Cuneiformist
I'd rather their Grammy win not be linked in any way to the crap they got from the country music back-lash. They're a talented group, but it would suck wholesale if some sort of political statements were behind their win. Indeed, it would justify some of the tired far-right arguments that the mainstream entertainment industry is leftist and liberal.
Listen to the album. It really is great...
Jesus Christ. When did I say that I didn't like their music? What I don't want is to turn their Grammy win into some that came as a result of their outspoken-ness against our nitwit President, rather than as an award for their music. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2007 : 20:17:18 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Cuneiformist
BSG, I downloaded it to my iTunes a long time ago, and have several earlier albums. No worries. But the several conservative outlets tried early on to frame their win in political terms (i.e. the "liberal" entertainment industry rewarding anti-Bush sentiment) and even mainstream media made subtle overtures as well (witness the New York Times editorial, where they suggested that the Grammy "endorsement was about three years too late").
So I'm not knocking the Dixie Chicks at all. Rather I am simply aruging that sometimes their Grammy win is portrayed as some sort of vindication of their political stance, when it really should be simply an acknowledgement of their talent.
The Grammys are once a year. The song and album came out last summer. When would it have been up for a Grammy before now? And another tidbit you may not have been aware of. The DCs didn't write any of their own music until after the controversy. I believe this is the first but at most the second album that features their own work. So no Grammys until now is not so unusual.
The Times editorial as in the (Judy Miller's fired but her co-writer still works there) New York Times? The campaign against the DCs really stretches into Rove territory. Of course it's about as separate as the Swift Boat campaign and the fire Dan Rather and Mary Mapes campaigns so it's hard to tell just how connected it is. Could just be the Free Republic is completely independent and you still might see the same comments.
I try not to be a conspiracy nut over this stuff. But if you take the time to look into the campaign which was really pushed by the Free Republic, it becomes much less surprising to see the kind of unwarranted comments that the Grammy awards were just political.
Tell me, are you aware of any other Grammy awards that fit the same profile? Why now and why the DCs? If you have evidence of a history or some explanation such as a new Grammy awards director, I might consider that NYTs editorial is actually a valid opinion piece. But if not, then the NYTs editorial is either, the usual, 'make up a controversy', or worse, a plug from a well placed reporter either on his/her own or via Rove related suggester, or worse yet, the result of a talking points type memo or the influence of an editor who would also like the DCs to be the bad guys here, and not the victims.
Either way, no one has presented any evidence that isn't just made up bull.
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| Edited by - beskeptigal on 02/16/2007 20:19:47 |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2007 : 20:20:42 [Permalink]
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*Sigh* My point isn't that there was a conspiracy. Rather, it was that if people constantly tout their win as some sort of justification for their anti-Bush sentiments, then it cheapens the whole thing.
Whatever. I'm done with this topic. Let the fucking dixie Chicks win the next 18 fucking Grammys. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2007 : 20:39:13 [Permalink]
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The tone of the editorial is certainly BS, though the end was better than the beginning.
quote:
Editorial
The Courage of Others' Convictions
February 13, 2007
The music industry awarded an armload of Grammys to the Dixie Chicks on Sunday night, in what was celebrated as a blow for freedom of speech as much as tunefulness. The endorsement was about three years too late. The awards — including for the trio's fittingly titled album “Taking the Long Way” and the song “Not Ready to Make Nice” — ended a desolate period in which their music was boycotted and banned by country music stations, their CDs were burned and smashed, and group members' lives were threatened.
Ended a "desolate period". This guy either didn't do his homework or believes the media slice of reality or both. The music was banned by a couple of monopoly holding radio companies. Look into that McCain/Boxer hearing I quoted from above and see if fans or a monopoly were a bigger influence behind a lot of the boycott. It's interesting that the concert which was sold out before the infamous statement was packed had only a few protesters out front. The "boos" were completely drowned out with cheers when Natalie told everyone to boo and get it out, they believed in free speech.
quote:
The Chicks' offense was geographic but labeled unpatriotic. The lead singer, Natalie Maines, told a 2003 London concert crowd that she was ashamed that President Bush was from her home state, Texas.
There was some 100,000 people marching in the London streets at the time over Bush's re-election.
quote:
The gutsy group beat back the campaign by conglomerate radio chains to obliterate them and did it with little support from fellow artists, who apparently feared getting Dixie-Chicked themselves. The band reinvented itself, taking on a pop style, reclaiming some old fans and finding new ones — a lot of them. Meanwhile, Mr. Bush's polls plummeted to Nixonian levels. Suddenly, the industry found the courage to really, really like them again.
This is what the editorial should have begun with. But 're-invented' should have been replaced with, were motivated to begin writing their own songs.
quote:
We've seen this sort of political calibration by the arts before. Lillian Hellman scalded an Academy Awards ceremony in 1977, 25 years after she defied the House Un-American Activities Committee. The film industry, she said, responded to Washington's red-baiting and blacklisting with all the “force and courage of a bowl of mashed potatoes.”
This is telling. The writer uses an example from the Academy Awards in 1977! The example may indeed fit and worth mentioning. But it is not much evidence supporting the implication in the editorial the Grammy's were a political statement otherwise wouldn't have been awarded.
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| Edited by - beskeptigal on 02/16/2007 20:41:36 |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2007 : 20:49:43 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Kil
It occurs to me that if Willie Nelson or the late Waylon Jennings had said what the Chicks said, it wouldn't have raised an eyebrow. Sure, some people might have been pissed off, but so what? They were outlaws. No one would have banned their records…
Under all the politics, I believe that sexism was at play in the reaction to the Dixie Chicks speaking out. They were supposed to be cute, ya know?
Nelson and Jennings would have had the courtesy of doing so on American soil.
The firestorm wasn't about what they said so much as where they said it.
We are talking about the average Country and Western audience. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2007 : 20:53:13 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Cuneiformist
*Sigh* My point isn't that there was a conspiracy. Rather, it was that if people constantly tout their win as some sort of justification for their anti-Bush sentiments, then it cheapens the whole thing.
Whatever. I'm done with this topic. Let the fucking dixie Chicks win the next 18 fucking Grammys.
My my, aren't you touchy? It isn't like anyone forced you to post anything.
I was the one who brought up the CTs, I certainly didn't think you were saying that. But it did sound like you were claiming the awards were more political than deserved. I'll take your word for it your angle was different than that. But I have 2 idiots over on JREF who are claiming "no talent" in more immature words than that in the same thread. So at least consider why, between them, the editorial and the way you worded your post I might have understood you to be saying the same, that the awards were only political.
I think they had every right to quote Nelson's, Ha ha! And they have every right to point out that they have been unfairly attacked and came out on top. That is my whole point.
Kerry and Dan Rather/Mary Mapes did not come out on top. And during the McCarthy era neither did a lot of people. There is just a little more to this than a "comeback". Triumphing over the power of a small group of people who own the microphones is worth celebrating, IMO.
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2007 : 21:01:58 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
Nelson and Jennings would have had the courtesy of doing so on American soil.
The firestorm wasn't about what they said so much as where they said it.
We are talking about the average Country and Western audience.
I don't agree. There were 49% of the American voters (or more) who were terribly upset over 4 more years of Bush. Remember that whole book of "I'm sorry" signs and pictures? The DCs were hardly the only famous people in the news upset over re-electing a president who had so lied us into a war and then bungled it on top of things.
What was different was the "Swift boat Red neck campaign" or whatever you want to call it. If you get a chance to see the documentary you'll see the intense media attention paid to a small but very vocal group. If the owner of 250 country music stations decides to broadcast condemnation of 3 women over all the stations, it isn't hard to see both, people who think the protest is much bigger than it is, and sheep who go along when they hear their local DJ telling them everyone else is mad.
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