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Dr Shari
Skeptic Friend
135 Posts |
 Posted - 02/16/2002 : 01:39:15
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If you have a cold you go to the drug store and get some cold pills, drink plenty of fluids and feel better in 7-10 days. If you have pnuemonia you see a doctor. If you have "the blues" you buy some shoes, see a movie or call a friend to talk. If you are depressed you see a doctor. The problem lately is it seems that Americans are flocking to their doctors offices and demanding a pill to help them get through the day to day trials that we all face. Drug companies put ads in magazines and on television that show people in everyday life afraid to give a speech or feeling that there boss is picking on them as needing to take their anti-depressant and then shows them smiling and happy again after using their drug. Celexa, Prozac, Effexor, Paxil, Wellbutrin,Pamelor, Elavil,MAO Inhibitors...the list goes on and that doesn't even cover the herbal or natural "cures" such as St. Johns Wort and Sam-E that you can buy over the counter. The message is clear. If you can't cope get a pill.
Add to that the fact that they gloss over the side effects that can be severe from actual addiction, sexual dysfunction and hypertension, to the lesser yet still annoying weight gain, dry mouth, abnormal dreaming, sleepiness and dizziness to just name a few. In the last 5 years the use of anti-depressants has quadrupled with the majority of the patients being women. Now children as young as two or three are being given Prozac to make them more easily managed.
Don't get me wrong. I prescribe anti-depressants in my practice almost daily, with an increase since 9/11, to people who are clinically depressed but other supports must be in place to help these people cope with their depression. I have frequent office visits to discuss their progress, I recommend keeping a journal and I never write a prescription for new person on the first visit. I encourage some form of other therapy either with a counselor or even depending on the patient their pastor or spiritual leader. If I feel there is enough self conflict I refer to a Psychiatrist who specializes in prescribing the right drug for the right patient. I am in general and family practice and admit most of the information I have on these drugs comes from the Pharmaceutical Reps who buy me lunch and give me free pens and clocks.
For those who don't know about these drugs they do not get you high they should just equalize your mood so you can cope and in my practice I rarely prescribe for more then 6 months. If it is obvious that this person is not responding they need to see a specialist. My own daughter has been on anti-depressants for nine years now because she is Bi-Polar (manic-depressive). She would not be alive today without them. There are many very good reasons for people taking them but Americas fascination with instant gratification even falls into day to day living. Even people who buy the so called natural products should worry because there is nothing that does not have side-effects. The popular St Johns Wort interferes with chemo-therapy and anti-coagulants. Plus not everyone on these drugs are depressed.They have other uses.
I am sure some of you here have at one time or another have needed and taken an anti-depressant, maybe for years, and they have made your life better and I am not addressing you. I just worry that too many people rather then dealing with their life are jumping into a bottle of pills hoping that that is the answer to their problem when maybe talking things out, trying different strategies or just coming to terms with what life has handed you is the real answer.
Death: The High Cost of Living
It is easier to get forgiveness then to get permission!
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2002 : 02:38:31 [Permalink]
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Kil and I have been in discussions about just this issue before. In many ways it reminds me of some old science fiction novel's predictions. It really bothers me that the drug companies peddle this stuff and doctors prescribe it for sadness that often should be faced and dealt with.
Now, I had the pleasure of taking Zyban a few months ago to quit smoking and enjoyed every bit of it. You say that a person doesn't get "high" but the experience, to me, was close to that. It wouldn't bother me to take it my entire life except I don't know what adverse effects there could be, not physically, but in how I would deal with life.
Have any studies been done to see if there are any effects beyond the physical or is that unimportant?
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2002 : 04:13:34 [Permalink]
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quote:
The problem lately is it seems that Americans are flocking to their doctors offices and demanding a pill to help them get through the day to day trials that we all face.
What do you mean LATELY? As I see it, it's been going on for a long time. It just doesn't help that more ads are out there and society in general is accepting that it's ok to need a quick fix.
It's not just drugs it's the attitude.
On the news when ever something happens, something that doesn't seem all that emotionaly crippling, you'll always here at the end of the story, a therapyst is being sent to ....the school or work place to talk to anyone who needs help. I can't think any example now but everyday people face potencial 'truma' what are we supposed to do, have shrinks follow us around every minute?
I say, Deal with it! The less we learn to cope and the more we think we need help, the more weak we become. Mommie* isn't going to hold your hand all the time.
*drugs, doctors, teachers, etc. If they are there or if one thinks they are going to be, he won't learn to handle (think through) problems on his own.
Having said all that, I think it's great people do think they need a crutch. Heh, he, all the better for people who don't, the ones who can think for themselves and move forward and not waste time whining.
*
Earth is the insane asylum for the universe.
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Lars_H
SFN Regular
Germany
630 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2002 : 08:18:17 [Permalink]
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quote:
What do you mean LATELY? As I see it, it's been going on for a long time. It just doesn't help that more ads are out there and society in general is accepting that it's ok to need a quick fix.
Yes, but in my opinon while pills for sleeping or digesting or other common day problems have been overues for a long time, those anti-depressants have gotten a huge boost after last september.
An old news story on at http://www.wired.com/news/conflict/0,2100,47633,00.html
shows how bad it has gotten.
quote:
It's not just drugs it's the attitude.
On the news when ever something happens, something that doesn't seem all that emotionaly crippling, you'll always here at the end of the story, a therapyst is being sent to ....the school or work place to talk to anyone who needs help. I can't think any example now but everyday people face potencial 'truma' what are we supposed to do, have shrinks follow us around every minute?
But there are many instances where the people actually need help. How would you know when they need help and when not? Isn't it better to err on the side of caution?
quote:
I say, Deal with it! The less we learn to cope and the more we think we need help, the more weak we become. Mommie* isn't going to hold your hand all the time.
Yeah right real man don't need any of this touchy feely stuff. You should be able to cope with this on your own you sissy.
Is that what you mean?
What does not kill us makes us stronger?
quote:
*drugs, doctors, teachers, etc. If they are there or if one thinks they are going to be, he won't learn to handle (think through) problems on his own.
Thanks to all kinds of people being there for me when I neede them I never had to learn how to handel a broken bone on my own.
Now I am soft and when I break an arm I won't be able to cope with it on my own as well as somebody who had to before.
quote:
Having said all that, I think it's great people do think they need a crutch. Heh, he, all the better for people who don't, the ones who can think for themselves and move forward and not waste time whining.
Hooray for you! Maybee you got a thicker skin then most. Maybee different people regard situations differently. What could be the end of the world for somebody will only be a minor anoyance for somebody else.
Just hope that you will always know your limits and that when you reach a point where you actually need help you will actually do so.
Being a real man who does not go to the doctor for every scrapped knee is great. Not seeking help because the snakebite only stung a little will get you an Darwin award.
Edited by - Lars_H on 02/16/2002 08:20:12 |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2002 : 10:21:49 [Permalink]
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I don't see anything wrong with taking pills, if they work. Problem is, I'm not sure that they always work. I took Prozac for a while. I realized that it really didn't make me feel happier, just drugged. I suppose they work for some.
I think part of our obsession with drugs is our fear of drugs. Especially "mind-altering" drugs. This gets us sidetracked into a discussion about prohibition and what "addiction" is again, though.
"Not one human life should be expended in this reckless violence called a war against terrorism." - Howard Zinn |
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Badger
Skeptic Friend
Canada
257 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2002 : 17:05:02 [Permalink]
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Hey, Lars, I thought I'd give you a bit of a pointer wrt "Thanks to all kinds of people being there for me when I neede them I never had to learn how to handel a broken bone on my own.
Now I am soft and when I break an arm I won't be able to cope with it on my own as well as somebody who had to before"
Duct tape, Stick, Axe, Fire.
Straighten bone (bite on stick to help control pain). Duct tape stick to bone, wrapping length of stick. (try not to make it so tight it cuts off blood supply)
If things start to turn green, take axe and cut off broken appendage. Hold stump in fire until bleeding ceases. (bite on stick to control pain)
I don't mean to offend you. I just had to say the above.
Dr Shari, I think there is a time and a place for drugs. In todays society, perhaps we're using them more than ever because they're more available than ever. The detriment would be when it negatively affects someone's life.
If a person is traumatized, and they run to the doctor, and get some counselling, and a handful of pills, and are up and at 'em again in a few weeks, what's so bad about that? Better than sqeezing the horrible feelings into a little box deep down inside you, with all the other little boxes in that dark place where you never go. And then one day you bring a chainsaw to work.....
Now in North American society and medicine, big business is playing more of an overt part. Dr Shari, you are subject to the same type of marketing that is normal for oil companies, car companies, people bidding for contracts, etc. You, however, took the Hippocratic Oath, whereas the others listed above didn't. Therefore, your oath takes precedence to any marketing ploys the manufacturers will pull on you. I'm not saying you can't let them buy you lunch, take you skiing/golfing/to shows, or anything else. It's my opinion that you can take the freebies they offer if you make no compromises with your patients health and trust in you.
Like I always say, a free beer is a good beer.
Having said that, I'm somewhat in agreement with Snake in that I think there are a lot more wimpy people out there today than there were before, and a whole lot of them should probably just bite down on a stick, and deal with it themselves rather than running to the doc, or the medicenter for every skinned knee, or every time someone says a nasty thing to them.
I'm stumblin through the parking lot of an invisible 7-eleven. ZZ-Top |
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Lars_H
SFN Regular
Germany
630 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2002 : 17:23:43 [Permalink]
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Badger I will try to keep your advice in mind. I hope that I will be either able to remember it when I need it or better yet never need it at all.
I agree that people nowadays get counoling for stuff that people genarations ago would not have let brother themselves.
These problems are however relative. It is not bad somthing is absolutly but how bad it is felt. And somebody growing up today might feel stuff a lot harder. Maybee compared to us our descendants who will hopefully grow up even more sheltered will be even more wimpy.
I think that for some people drugs can be the answer to their problems, there are a lot more however who are merly looking for something that will make the question go away. Without special training it is hard to tell where the border is and even then it is mostly a matter of perspective.
Oh and about the skinned knee and the nasty word that people should cope with on their own. People can die from the smallest injuries. At least a skinned knee seldom brings people to the point where they bring their guns to school or work.
If you feel like you need help seek it you might get more then would hve been absolutley necesseary, but there are worse alternatives.
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Dr Shari
Skeptic Friend
135 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2002 : 22:15:28 [Permalink]
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Dealing with drug companies and listening to their information does not replace researching the medication prescribed and picking and choosing the right drug for the right patient. That is my oath. They are just another source of information for all medical professionals, Nurses, Doctors and Pharmacists. It is the direct marketing to the consumers that is the same as say a good perfume commercial that is the problem. Take a pill your life is better. Wear our perfume your life is better. This form of advertising is what I object to most.
As for 9/11 it has brought honest depression to the more sensitive people. Others just don't want to face the their fears now that something new as come into our lives. It is like soldiers in war. Some come home and resume their lives. Others come home changed and unable to cope without medication. Some of the country is truly shell shocked. Not to belittle the people that are I believe some of the nation has acted like chicken little running around yelling the sky is falling. Most of us can and should get on with it. Some just can't. These I am sworn to help. Of course a good kick in the pants is sometimes the right medication to get people going again. I do that too in my own way of reassurrance that the sky is not falling and life can be lived as before without pills.
Death: The High Cost of Living
It is easier to get forgiveness then to get permission! |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2002 : 00:19:00 [Permalink]
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quote:
Having said that, I'm somewhat in agreement with Snake in that I think there are a lot more wimpy people out there today than there were before, and a whole lot of them should probably just bite down on a stick, and deal with it themselves rather than running to the doc, or the medicenter for every skinned knee, or every time someone says a nasty thing to them.
Thank you for summing it up so well and for understanding. I was trying to think of how to answer all that Lars said and somewhat went off the track with but I can't add much to your reply.
Only one other point was, that by calling in therapists to schools and other situations for every 'little' thing, that makes people think.....Maybe I DO need help, or what IS wrong with me, when they might have been able to handle it themself. Or didn't really need help.
HUM! Could this be a scam by the government, doctors and others to make people think they need help? So they can keep their jobs or create ones that don't exist. Oh O, am I sounding to skeptical?
*
Earth is the insane asylum for the universe.
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