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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
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Piltdown
Skeptic Friend
USA
312 Posts |
 Posted - 03/17/2002 : 01:05:31 [Permalink]
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I am certainly no friend of the Catholic Church, nor of any other gang of priests, but this is really beginning to take on the dimensions of a witchhunt. Note the District Attorney's willingness to look at "triple hearsay" and the fact that many offenses occurred many years ago. This is the kind of situation that could lead to an innocent man being imprisoned on the unsupported word of somebody a jury just happens to find credible. Worse, that somebody could easily have a financial incentive for making the accusation, now that the RCC is handing out large monetary settlements.
Except for some of the cases being unarguably genuine (but how many?) this is looking like the ritual abuse craze all over again. Ritual abuse claimants still exist and their movement has evolved into one of the weirdest and most ruthless of all conspiracy subgenres, with many links to the anti-government movement, the ufo industry, and (most sinister of all) the 9-11 conspira-wackies whose insane notions have achieved such a following in the Arab world. They will undoubtedly incorporate the Catholic pedophile scandal into their dark and paranoid alternate reality.
Abducting UFOs and conspiring against conspiracy theorists since 1980. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2002 : 03:42:10 [Permalink]
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Yeah. The percentage of pedofiles in the church probably reflect close to the percentages of society as a whole. What gets me is how long they've kept operating after being found out.
And the DA's office is a political one. Pedophile cases get the public stired up and raise the profile of the prosecuter.
A bummer all the way around.
f
"Don't tell me your doubts; I've got enough doubts of my own. Tell me something you BELIEVE in!"
Brother Dave Gardner |
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Donnie B.
Skeptic Friend
417 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2002 : 08:15:07 [Permalink]
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Frankly, the whole thing is getting to be pretty boring. The local Boston newscasts are talking about almost nothing else, excpet whether Mitt Romney is going to run for Governor.
It's arguable that one former priest has already been convicted on questionable grounds. Certainly the evidence against Father John Geoghan was very weak in his "fondling" conviction.
Perhaps the other accused padres should fight for delay after delay, in hopes that the hoopla will die down.
-- Donnie B.
Brian: "No, no! You have to think for yourselves!" Crowd: "Yes! We have to think for ourselves!" |
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ronnywhite
SFN Regular
501 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2002 : 10:40:06 [Permalink]
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From the news, one's led to believe the problem's endemic in organized religion, and without a doubt it's far too prevalent for comfort. But I agree that it's likely about the same as with the rest of society, sad as it is. I suspect if most of us were aware of all of the goings on behind closed doors within, say, a few block radius of us on any given night (if you live in a city) we'd be rather shocked. The Boy Scouts, for instance, have had similar problems. I'm more disgusted with the higher ups who turn their heads the other way or try to cover it up (passive participants in the grunge.) They raise major questions as to the nature and integrity of the leadership, and the organizations as wholes.
Ron White |
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odysseus0101
New Member
USA
1 Post |
Posted - 03/17/2002 : 11:33:25 [Permalink]
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quote:
I'm more disgusted with the higher ups who turn their heads the other way or try to cover it up (passive participants in the grunge.) They raise major questions as to the nature and integrity of the leadership, and the organizations as wholes.
Ron White
Greetings, everyone. I've lurked for a couple weeks now, so I think I'm all set for a post on this fine board.
But first, a quick disclaimer: Religiosity is complete tripe. Please do not construe the following comments as any thing more than an explanation of why catholic church administrators are often reluctant to report on illegalities in their ranks.
Ever since Augustine of Hippo (later named a Doctor of the Church by the catholic church) successfully argued against the Donatists, it has been a major catholic belief that "the church is for sinners." He claimed that those who are without sin do not need a church, and that the church must therefore embrace the sinners who need its help and guidance. If the church rejected sinners as unworthy of being priests or lay church members, it would be rejecting its proper mission.
As I said, I don't believe a single word of this, starting with the principle of a deity and ending with the concept of morality, but that is a major reason why catholic church administrators are reluctant to reject priests who "sin."
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Kaneda Kuonji
Skeptic Friend
USA
138 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2002 : 02:45:52 [Permalink]
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In response to the above post, it is because they who sin need the church the most. I find that poppycock myself, but that's just me.
I'm still working on that book, BTW.
Rodney Dean, CI Order of the Knights of Jubal
Ivbalis.org
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2002 : 10:01:41 [Permalink]
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quote:
...Augustine of Hippo ... claimed that those who are without sin do not need a church, and that the church must therefore embrace the sinners who need its help and guidance. If the church rejected sinners as unworthy of being priests or lay church members, it would be rejecting its proper mission.
That's true, but he was writing in response to a church scandal not all that different from this one. He was "spin doctoring" because it had become overwhelmingly obvious that the churches moral authority was pure hypocrisy. His job was to seperate the institution of "The Church" from the people who comprised it. It was a neat trick, pulling the wool over the flock's eyes like that.
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It will sometimes be necessary to use falsehood for the benefit of those who need such a mode of treatment.
----Eusebius of Nicomedia,
[i]The Preparation of the Gospel[/i] |
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Bradley
Skeptic Friend
USA
147 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2002 : 10:45:58 [Permalink]
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This sort of thing isn't all that surprising when one considers the fact that the xian churches, with their morbid obsession with "sin," have never encouraged a healthy attitude toward human sexuality.
"Too much doubt is better than too much credulity."
-Robert Green Ingersoll (1833 - 1899) |
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Lisa
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2002 : 22:17:47 [Permalink]
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Had trouble finding this subject again.
I was watching "Oprah" the other day (don't ask) and she had several of the victems and lawyers as guests. There was no one represented from the catholic church. (Probably for legal reasons)
The stories from the victems were of course heart wrenching. What got my attention (and my bullshit meter on alert) was a remark by one of the lawyers. He said this whole thing was the tip of the iceberg, and there's going to be "thousands and thousands" more allegations in the future.
This could turn into a witch hunt really fast.
I'm an atheist with no love for the catholic church, or any other religion for that matter, but I still get leery when accusations start flying.
Lisa
If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much room. |
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ronnywhite
SFN Regular
501 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2002 : 22:54:34 [Permalink]
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quote:
It could turn into a witch hunt really fast.
The McMartin Preschool trial years back demonstrated how these emotionally charged issues can explode into just that, even when there's no foundation. The documented wrong doings in this matter make it all the more probable. A Jesuit priest I spoke with a few years ago told me he hated the guys who do that kind of thing (he didn't use the word "hate," but that was the idea) as they disgrace all of the good people in the organization, of which he was one. I understand his sentiments.
Ron White |
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Blair Nekkid
New Member
Canada
20 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2002 : 10:23:16 [Permalink]
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This sort of job desctiption could never cause problems could it?
1) Swear to give up your sex life.
2) Spend a significant portion of your time sitting in a small dark closet listening to the highlights of everyone elses sex life.
Cheers,
Blair
"Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes!" |
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2002 : 11:44:26 [Permalink]
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And let us not forget the (actual real honest to gawd) slogan of Jesuit colleges...
"Give us the boy and we will give you the man."
Takes on a whole new meaning these days.
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It will sometimes be necessary to use falsehood for the benefit of those who need such a mode of treatment.
----Eusebius of Nicomedia,
The Preparation of the Gospel |
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dimossi
Skeptic Friend
USA
141 Posts |
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