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Piltdown
Skeptic Friend
USA
312 Posts |
 Posted - 03/22/2002 : 15:47:13
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A "teacher's prayer group" in Kentucky has submitted a list of 50 titles it wants removed from the Russel County library:
http://www.kentucky.com/mld/heraldleader/2848247.htm
The targeted books are the usual; ghost stories, sorcery, Harry Potter, etc.
Keep in mind that these people are employed as educators:
[quote]God revealed to the group that the presence of the books was one reason his "manifested presence" hadn't yet come to the school to change the hearts and minds of students, according to a letter from one member of the group.[/quote]"God spoke to my spirit that we must do HOUSE CLEANING!" said the letter announcing the review request. "As a Christian teacher in the public school, God has showed me that it is my responsibility to take a stand and lift my voice."[/quote]
God failed to appear at a school board meeting where the proposal was discussed, but librarians and civil libertarians did show up to voice their opposition.
Authority has every reason to fear the skeptic, for authority can rarely survive in the face of doubt.
-Robert Lindner
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2002 : 15:51:46 [Permalink]
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Wasn't there some premise that if god spoke to you you were insane? But that's a county library and not the school library, how's that exactly affect the students?
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...no one has ever found a 4.5 billion year old stone artifact (at the right geological stratum) with the words "Made by God."
<i>No Sense of Obligation</i> by Matt Young |
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Lars_H
SFN Regular
Germany
630 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2002 : 16:56:25 [Permalink]
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I always thought that buying the Harry Potter books had been a waste of money. I am relived to hear that this turns out not to be the case.
They are shielding me from God!
On a more serious note I find it disturbing that people who speek of 'cleansing' and being on a 'mission from God' are allowed to run free. It seems inevidetable, that sooner or later not only books but also people will end up on the pire if noone puts a stop to this madness.
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They even admit in their letter that they hav not read all the books on the list!
Edited by - Lars_H on 03/22/2002 16:57:52 |
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Piltdown
Skeptic Friend
USA
312 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2002 : 16:56:38 [Permalink]
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[quote]
Wasn't there some premise that if god spoke to you you were insane? But that's a county library and not the school library, how's that exactly affect the students?
[/quote]
Sorry, I left out a very important detail, it's the Russel County High School libary.
Authority has every reason to fear the skeptic, for authority can rarely survive in the face of doubt.
-Robert Lindner
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Mr. Spock
Skeptic Friend
USA
99 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2002 : 18:48:01 [Permalink]
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If you think that these kind of pootheads in the public schools are scary, you should consider what passes as "education" in many private schools in the US, where there is little or no mechanism for monitering what happens in the classroom.
I'm all for freedom of speech and religion, even if I find it personally repugnant, but I remember vividly my 8th grade history teacher in Baptist school, who, for instance, referred to the NAACP as the "NAAN" indiscriminately, taught us that history "proves" the supremacy of whites and the correctness of Christian dogma, etc. etc.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that while we will always have kooks in public office and in public schools, as long as the Constitution has any teeth whatsoever, we can at least fight these forces. However, the quandary of any pluralistic society is that we have to tolerate those who use these same rights to undermine these rights themselves when they can claim to promoting themselves on the "private" side of the public/private divide. I can't think of a simple, non-partisan solution to this problem, or am I missing something?
"It has been my experience that folks with no vices have very few virtues." --Abe Lincoln |
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Kaneda Kuonji
Skeptic Friend
USA
138 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2002 : 22:57:15 [Permalink]
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It isn't even that uncommon. People have tried to ban "Catcher in the Rye" and "Tom Sawyer."
Shoot, as far as I'm concerned, these people have no right to call themselves teachers for banning something that disagrees with them.
Rodney Dean, CI Order of the Knights of Jubal
Ivbalis.org
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Piltdown
Skeptic Friend
USA
312 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2002 : 03:02:56 [Permalink]
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[quote]
If you think that these kind of pootheads in the public schools are scary, you should consider what passes as "education" in many private schools in the US, where there is little or no mechanism for monitering what happens in the classroom.
I'm all for freedom of speech and religion, even if I find it personally repugnant, but I remember vividly my 8th grade history teacher in Baptist school, who, for instance, referred to the NAACP as the "NAAN" indiscriminately, taught us that history "proves" the supremacy of whites and the correctness of Christian dogma, etc. etc.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that while we will always have kooks in public office and in public schools, as long as the Constitution has any teeth whatsoever, we can at least fight these forces. However, the quandary of any pluralistic society is that we have to tolerate those who use these same rights to undermine these rights themselves when they can claim to promoting themselves on the "private" side of the public/private divide. I can't think of a simple, non-partisan solution to this problem, or am I missing something?
"It has been my experience that folks with no vices have very few virtues." --Abe Lincoln
[/quote]
You're quite right, some really frightful nonsense is disseminated at private schools, and there is little we can do about it, except perhaps to educate parents about what they are really doing to their children. We discussed just such a school under this topic on Creation/Evolution forum: http://www.skepticfriends.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=902&FORUM_ID=2&CAT_ID=1&Topic_Title=Dallas+madrassa&Forum_Title=Creation%2FEvolution
Authority has every reason to fear the skeptic, for authority can rarely survive in the face of doubt.
-Robert Lindner
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Lisa
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2002 : 19:27:48 [Permalink]
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Many libraries, including the one at Ellsworth AFB, have a "banned book week". All the books that people have been bitching about are put right up front. There's also literature available about free speech.
A real shot in the dark, but I'm going to guess these particular librarian don't advocate this program.
Lisa
If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much room. |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2002 : 19:41:16 [Permalink]
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It's not the librarians that are the problem. It's a teacher's "prayer group" that is behind the book banning. Librarians are notorious for their dislike of book banning. Go figure.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Lisa
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2002 : 20:03:51 [Permalink]
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Oops, for some reason I understood that this group had some say about what was on the library's shelves.
Wonder what their reaction would be if someone didn't like the books [i]they're[/i] reading?
Lisa
If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much room. |
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Tim
SFN Regular
USA
775 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2002 : 05:56:28 [Permalink]
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Actually, this does not surprise me. After all the ranting the religous right has done attempting to secure gov't funding for parochial schools, and a bigger investment into home schooling, they continue to keep the take over of the public school system as their chief priority. The battle for a national theocracy, and the war against alternative lifestyles and religions begins with the the children. Indoctrination is an extremely effective tool, (Just look at the German Nazi party of seventy years ago). The local school boards are still their political focus.
Plus, being a teacher is no shield from the sword of Jesus.
Anyway, if I heard of a banned book while I was in Junior High, or High School you can bet that I would have rushed right out to get it before they could pull it from the shelves.
"The Constitution ..., is a marvelous document for self-government by Christian people. But the minute you turn the document into the hands of non-Christian and atheistic people they can use it to destroy the very foundation of our society." P. Robertson |
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Wolfgang_faust
Skeptic Friend
USA
59 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2002 : 07:51:39 [Permalink]
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It is not to much of a shock to me that these teachers have not read these books. I have often tried to get my father to read books that show the fallacys of the Bible and he refuses to even let them in his house! These books are so-called agents of the Devil designed to deceive mankind. His answer has always been "I [i]know[/i]what the Truth is so I don't need to read any of that. After all if it doesn't agree with the Bible then it must be false." The problem I try to point out to him is that the Bible doesn't agree with the Bible. I believe the term is "Brainwashed"[i][/i][i][/i]
Add value to every day, Sharpen your skills, your understanding |
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James
SFN Regular
USA
754 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2002 : 08:04:38 [Permalink]
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[quote]I have often tried to get my father to read books that show the fallacys of the Bible and he refuses to even let them in his house! These books are so-called agents of the Devil designed to deceive mankind. His answer has always been "I [i]know[/i]what the Truth is so I don't need to read any of that. After all if it doesn't agree with the Bible then it must be false." The problem I try to point out to him is that the Bible doesn't agree with the Bible. I believe the term is "Brainwashed"[i][/i][i][/i][/quote]
I think that'd be putting it mildly, IMO. And besides, at your father's age, it's almost an uphill battle against the wind to get him to change his mind. You can give it a try, good luck in your attempts, but I doubt you'll make too much progress. I think you'll be lucky if he lets those books into his house.
"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your common sense." -Buddha |
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Mr. Spock
Skeptic Friend
USA
99 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2002 : 17:57:48 [Permalink]
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Antagonizing the opposition, as I see it, is a tactic that Skeptics should eschew, especially if it involves ones own family or other loved ones. It's too much like preaching, and only achieves the opposite of the goal it strives for.
I'm not saying something as trite as "I'm OK, you're OK," which is no solution either. I just see the Skeptic "cause," insofar as there is one, as a matter of subtle infiltration, rather than outright assault, especially when it comes to personal relations.
"It has been my experience that folks with no vices have very few virtues." --Abe Lincoln |
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Stygma
New Member
36 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2002 : 22:29:17 [Permalink]
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Of course, the most satisfying of retorts would be to petition a ban on religious books, but I doubt that'll happen anywhere. Dare to dream?
If you ever fall off the Sears Tower, just go limp, because people might think you're a dummy and try and catch you because, hey, free dummy. |
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Lars_H
SFN Regular
Germany
630 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2002 : 23:04:51 [Permalink]
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[quote]
Of course, the most satisfying of retorts would be to petition a ban on religious books, but I doubt that'll happen anywhere. Dare to dream?
[/quote]
Oh I guess that would depend entirely on the religion in question. the Koran for example is not very popular right now and you could easily find some idiots who would support it's banning. If you find a library that has any pagan and new age literature could get banned as well. Any library with enough balls to actually have satanist books is unlikely to be very impressed by petitions.
For fun you could always try to get the bible banned. You would have to organise it like a anti-dihydromonoxide campaign.
There is enogh objectionable material in it to get a dozen books banned.
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