|
|
|
Tim
SFN Regular
USA
775 Posts |
 Posted - 04/07/2002 : 02:13:28 [Permalink]
|
Population growth, I believe, is a serious consideration, and I'll be darned if I know what to do about it, short of a 'Brave New World' scenario. I read somewhere on one of those christian web sites that this fundie lady thinks all christians should go out and breed like there is no tomorrow, because the bible tells them so. She went on to say that the entire world population could be given a house, and all live in Texas.
Well, maybe some people think that a one world slum is the new Utopia, but frankly, I can't stand the smell of human waste on a grand scale.
I am not taking this woman's analogy seriously, but trying to say that densely packed people create densely packed problems that tend to spill out across the rest of the world. I live in an area that is mostly water, (the other La.), but our meddling is turning it into a giant dry land suburb. We try to control the water, causing the swamps to silt up, and the marsh to erode at an amazing rate, all in the attempt to make our multiplying world needs a little easier.
Waste from the hundreds of refineries and chemical plants, and boat companies constantly contaminate our drinking water, and destroy natural habitat. And we keep planting people on top of that miraculous filter system that repairs the damage we do to our planet on a regular basis.
This little gripe of mine is not just our lifestyles, but an attempt to keep up with world population growth by technological means. Watching our energy industries transform pristine environs into places fit only for precarious human habitation is a little depressing.
I've lived here for over twenty years, and watched entire lakes turn into forested swamp, and islands larger than the one drained to allow our town to exist disappear in what seems like overnight. This environment is unique throughout the world, and it will never come back. My old fishing hole is a ship yard, the bayous we shot some of our best photos on are now subdivisions with waterway access. And this is small town America trying to keep up with the demands of world growth in both population and the technology to feed and warm and cloth that ever growing behemoth.
"The Constitution ..., is a marvelous document for self-government by Christian people. But the minute you turn the document into the hands of non-Christian and atheistic people they can use it to destroy the very foundation of our society." P. Robertson |
 |
|
|
Omega
Skeptic Friend
Denmark
164 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2002 : 09:48:51 [Permalink]
|
Snake> Overpopulation in cities is not the same as saying the entire planet is overpopulated.
Thousands of bill-boards are not overpopulation either. That's mostly the ugly face of capitalism.
You seem to be confusing overpopulation with pollution in all its forms and shapes. Is it now that I make a gender-remark on the confusion?
“So you tell me how is any problem going to be solved with idiots like that controlling things?”
As far as overpopulation is concerned?
Now you're talking politics. And that's the point I've been trying to make on the overpopulation issue. That it's the way our so-called “leaders” are running things that make it seem as if the planet is running out of space, NOT the amount of people and ressources.
Franc28> What governments are hell-bent on stopping genetic manipulation of crops?
"All it takes to fly is to fling yourself at the ground... and miss."
- Douglas Adams |
|
|
|
James
SFN Regular
USA
754 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2002 : 12:06:42 [Permalink]
|
quote:
quote:
Years ago, I also read about studies done with rats. If they are kept disease free, and resource rich (enough food and water) they turn nasty on eachother, and kill the weak and the young. Population declines to reasonable levels and the cycle repeats.
That was done at Stanford back in the late 70's. They didn't turn nasty (well not too nasty) with one another. When the population reached a certain density homosexual behavior increased markedly. To the point where the homosexual comunity protested findings of the experiment.
When the population density reached it's max all the rats stoppped reproducing.
When the levels fell to normal the rats did not resume their normal behavior and even though there was enough food and no disease every last one died.
So, IOW, if we keep living on this dirtball with the population the way it is or worse, eventually we'll die out? Provided we don't nuke ourselves out of existance, first.
Oh, boy. We're all gonna die.
"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your common sense." -Buddha |
|
|
|
Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2002 : 19:58:18 [Permalink]
|
quote:
I've lived here for over twenty years, and watched entire lakes turn into forested swamp, and islands larger than the one drained to allow our town to exist disappear in what seems like overnight. This environment is unique throughout the world, and it will never come back. My old fishing hole is a ship yard, the bayous we shot some of our best photos on are now subdivisions with waterway access. And this is small town America trying to keep up with the demands of world growth in both population and the technology to feed and warm and cloth that ever growing behemoth.
Tim, welcome to the world I see, and have seen for years, and years. I don't know how old you are but how many generations is it going to take for more people to expierence what you have?
Several years ago on one of my many trips to Thailand I photographed the most beautiful white splashing waves along the coast on one of the many 'former' pristene beaches there, I went back about two years later and went back to the same spot. It was litteraly a disaster, trash, ugly sand and dirt, no sea shells or corral around and most of all NO waves hitting against the rocks. I actually cried. I was told later that an oil company had been drilling out in the ocean. Don't know for sure about that but whatever it was, you can bet Humans were to blame.
When will they ever learn?
That is a very true story I have the photos to prove it. After I left the 2nd time I wished I had taken a photo of it to show the difference but I was too upset at the time. I only have the beautiful picture but I have no doubt that if one goes back there it will be just as bad if not worse than the last time.
Everyone said it couldn't be done. So no one tried. Execpt one little old man who lived in a cave on the other side of the world. He hadn't heard it couldn't be done. So he tried it. He couldn't do it either.
|
|
|
|
Tim
SFN Regular
USA
775 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2002 : 05:22:13 [Permalink]
|
Snake, I've not only watched this environmental decline where I live now, but, also, in the Florida Keys where I lived for a portion of my youth. The devastation to the natural reef systems is amazing. Most people just don't realize that the earth is one system where damage to one portion of the globe affects another. Even the actions of people in one part of the world affect another.
Energy is a perfect example. As poorer countries try to come into the modern world, they demand all the same perks as us Westerners, and rightly so. Part of those demands include heating oil and gasoline, and other various petroleum products such as those used in parts of the cosmetic industry, or operating heavy equipment for new construction to give these out of control populations what we would consider a modern life style. The increased infrastructure to support these burgeoning nations puts a strain on the entire planet, and this doesn't even take into consideration the growth in wealth of the western nations, like the U.S. Humans demand an incredible toll on the planet.
The sad thing is, all the destruction of the environment in my area comes at a time when the local population has dropped considerably in the past twenty years. However, we still produce sugar, rice and seafood that is sent to all corners of the globe. Agriculture has as big a hand in the destruction of the environment as the energy and chemical industries, and we're still a poor state. This is what is so sad, we are rich in natural resources, and we continue to decline as we struggle with the minor things such as finding a place to put our garbage.
Remember too, that this area is the delta system for the Mississippi River, which is the drain for nearly two-thirds of the U.S. population. We get most of the crap that everyone from the Appalachians to the Rockies flushes down their commodes. This is where the natural filter system is, and we are destroying it. The wetlands throughout the world are dying as a direct result of world population, and our technicological attempts to deal with it.
Finally, for all those that believe that there is plenty of land with limited populations, and therefore we are not over crowding need a reality check. They need to think about all the things they take for granted in everyday life, such as their homes, their automobiles, their dinner, clothing, furniture, kid's toys, household cleaners, home electronics and appliances, and any of the other numerous things we don't think about. Then, they need to think about the natural resources used just to make the products that are used to make those things. Then, they need to go to their comfortable little offices, and look around again, and think about where all this stuff came from and where it goes when they are done with it.
Then, they need to think about those billions out there in the world that want those very same conveniences. Imagine that every Chinese family has a refrigerator, and they can't afford the 'environmentally friendly' refrigerant. Can we deny these people what we have had?
"The Constitution ..., is a marvelous document for self-government by Christian people. But the minute you turn the document into the hands of non-Christian and atheistic people they can use it to destroy the very foundation of our society." P. Robertson |
|
|
|
Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2002 : 18:09:36 [Permalink]
|
quote:
I thought you were in Idaho or am I mixing you up with Lisa? In any case, we just had a news report that the snow in the mountians was good this year and as I recall because of that we(in California) don't have to worry about water this summer. I know we've taken water from the Colorado river for years but if you ask me Trish, I'd like to know what they do with it? I think the politicians make up stories to worry people so we'll vote for more money for bonds that aren't really needed.
ON THE OTHER HAND, as we are also told, this is a desert and there is not much water, (not enough for the amount of people that keep coming here). You'd think people would listen to that and not keep moving here.
And don't blame me I was born here, let's just get the foreigners out and back to NY.
No Water for YOU!
Everyone said it couldn't be done. So no one tried. Execpt one little old man who lived in a cave on the other side of the world. He hadn't heard it couldn't be done. So he tried it. He couldn't do it either.
Snake, the Colorado River doesn't even flow through California. So, you stop the river and pipe water into CA. In CO, the majority of the population are in the Denver Metro area, the majority of the water in CO is on the Western Slope and eventually flows into the Colorado River. CO is required by lawsuits from CA to allow so many millions of gallons of water to flow. If that means that 100% of the water of in the Colorado has to go to CA, Coloradans can't use that water, it is ere marked for CA usage. So yeah, there may have been enough snow pack for CA not to have draught conditions, that doesn't mean that CO won't be restricted to watering every third day. You don't have the problem, the problem arises when all the water has to be left to flow to CA. The issue is over miners rights vs cattlemans rights. CA has always claimed miners rights - X number of gallons/year and CO claims cattlesmans rights - headwater usages and let the rest flow. Almost none of the water left to flow goes to Arizona. So, there might be enough snow pack here for CA, but that doesn't necessarily mean there's enough snow pack for three states. Snow was pretty slim this year, it also depends on run off, water table and a whole slew of other factors - not just snow pack.
---
...no one has ever found a 4.5 billion year old stone artifact (at the right geological stratum) with the words "Made by God."
No Sense of Obligation by Matt Young |
|
|
|
Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2002 : 23:57:30 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Snake, I've not only watched this environmental decline where I live now, but, also, in the Florida Keys where I lived for a portion of my youth. The devastation to the natural reef systems is amazing. Most people just don't realize that the earth is one system where damage to one portion of the globe affects another. Even the actions of people in one part of the world affect another.
Finally, for all those that believe that there is plenty of land with limited populations, and therefore we are not over crowding need a reality check. They need to think about all the things they take for granted in everyday life, such as their homes, their automobiles, their dinner, clothing, furniture, kid's toys, household cleaners, home electronics and appliances, and any of the other numerous things we don't think about. Then, they need to think about the natural resources used just to make the products that are used to make those things. Then, they need to go to their comfortable little offices, and look around again, and think about where all this stuff came from and where it goes when they are done with it..
Years ago while visiting a former friend while she was cooking dinner (we are no longer friends, NOT for this reason but just as well), I saw her getting rid of some product, I've forgotten exactly what but must have been some plastic throw away thing. I mentioned that it could be recycled. She dismissed the idea, said it was ridiculous and there's plenty of resources, she couldn't be bothered. That is still the attitude of many today, I do believe.
quote:
Then, they need to think about those billions out there in the world that want those very same conveniences.
I will never stop my efforts but it's frustrating knowing so many are ignorant morons who don't care about the Earth.
Tim, You've about said it all, thanks. Too bad you are married. Even worse too bad I'm married. Oh well!
Keep on spreading the word.
* * * * *
"The thing I hate more then people not taking me seriously is people taking me too seriously."
Billy Wilder |
|
|
|
Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
|
|
Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
|
|
Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2002 : 11:39:56 [Permalink]
|
Snake - CA will sue us if we use any water that is meant for them. You think the citizen in CA cares that there are towns in CO that have to haul water in because their wells are dry and we can't build reservoirs on the CO river. Or that our reservoirs are at all time lows, our wetlands are so dry that the state has decided to use this as an opportunity to clean the silt from the basins? No, CA cares that they have enough water for their citizen. Sorry.
[edited because it got screwy when posting]
---
...no one has ever found a 4.5 billion year old stone artifact (at the right geological stratum) with the words "Made by God."
No Sense of Obligation by Matt Young
Edited by - Trish on 04/11/2002 11:43:14 |
|
|
|
Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2002 : 02:40:02 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Snake - CA will sue us if we use any water that is meant for them. You think the citizen in CA cares that there are towns in CO that have to haul water in because their wells are dry and we can't build reservoirs on the CO river. Or that our reservoirs are at all time lows, our wetlands are so dry that the state has decided to use this as an opportunity to clean the silt from the basins? No, CA cares that they have enough water for their citizen. Sorry.
That's ok, Trish, don't be sorry. I forgive you.
And we (Californians) get water from lake Mead too. Isn't that why they built the Hoover Dam?
Go ahead use our water! If we sue you, you can know your money went to a good cause, we need it.quote:
[edited because it got screwy when posting]
Well, anyone can use a good screw once in a while!
* * * * *
Carabao forever |
|
|
 |
|
|
|
Topic Locked
