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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 08/14/2008 : 10:25:13 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by chaloobi
A few thoughts:
#1. I hope they did a very thorough autopsy on Ivins to rule out murder.
#2. Conspiracy theorists are going to make hay out of this for decades.
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Yeah buddy! They'll have a ball with this one because it is such a natural for way-out speculations. I myself, have a few -- which I'll keep to myself for the nonce.
If it were any administration except Bush's....
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2008 : 12:17:12 [Permalink]
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| So why would they assume the hair isnt from one of the other people who used the mailbox? Hardly seems newsworthy to me, like saying "No blue mailbox paint was found under his fingernails" |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2008 : 12:27:53 [Permalink]
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Yeah, the hair in the mailbox thing.... WTF?
Are we talking about a public mailbox? The kind where hundreds of people drop mail into every day? If so, the person who thought they could collect "evidence" from it that would be useful in making a case against this guy needs to be FIRED.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 08/14/2008 : 12:35:14 [Permalink]
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I believe that's called "grasping at straws" and hoping to find one heavy enough to "break the camel's back." When you have nothing and still want to justify your paycheck, that's what you do. Mostly, it doesn't work.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2008 : 12:40:38 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf
So why would they assume the hair isnt from one of the other people who used the mailbox? Hardly seems newsworthy to me, like saying "No blue mailbox paint was found under his fingernails"
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This is a public mailbox we're talking about? I assumed it was a post office box. |
-Chaloobi
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2008 : 15:52:11 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by chaloobi
Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf
So why would they assume the hair isnt from one of the other people who used the mailbox? Hardly seems newsworthy to me, like saying "No blue mailbox paint was found under his fingernails"
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This is a public mailbox we're talking about? I assumed it was a post office box.
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A PO box only recieves mail that must be picked up by the box renter. You can't send through it. It must have been a public box and, as stated by others, mere hair in one would not be conclusive proof of much of anything beyond that the guy used that particular box at one time or another. IF they had found his hair among all the rest that might be in there. Which, evidently, they didn't. I really don't see what they have on the guy beyond that he worked with that particular strain of anthrax, mentally ill or not.
Innocent until proven guilty......
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2008 : 16:32:55 [Permalink]
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In our society today you are only innocent until accused!
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2008 : 18:59:18 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
Originally posted by chaloobi
Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf
So why would they assume the hair isnt from one of the other people who used the mailbox? Hardly seems newsworthy to me, like saying "No blue mailbox paint was found under his fingernails"
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This is a public mailbox we're talking about? I assumed it was a post office box.
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A PO box only recieves mail that must be picked up by the box renter. You can't send through it. It must have been a public box and, as stated by others, mere hair in one would not be conclusive proof of much of anything beyond that the guy used that particular box at one time or another. IF they had found his hair among all the rest that might be in there. Which, evidently, they didn't. I really don't see what they have on the guy beyond that he worked with that particular strain of anthrax, mentally ill or not.
Innocent until proven guilty......
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I can't think of how I might leave hair in a public mail box....  |
-Chaloobi
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2008 : 19:00:21 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dude
In our society today you are only innocent until accused!
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Tell that to O.J. |
-Chaloobi
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2008 : 20:01:16 [Permalink]
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What I mean is, there is no presumption of innocence.
If a person is accused of wrongdoing, they are proclaimed guilty. You then have to prove innocence, as opposed to the accuser proving guilt.
Hell, maybe its always been this way, I dunno. Its not right though.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2008 : 02:32:33 [Permalink]
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| I can't think of how I might leave hair in a public mail box.... |
Yeah, I kind'a wonder about that. But we shed hair all the time and I suppose a strand or so might ride in on an envelope. Or something -- our current DOJ being what it is, the hair could have had help. But that suspicion leaves open the question of if it were planted, why not plant one of Ivins' hairs? Then you'd have a dead cert. As it stands, what we have is a dead researcher and a case that looks to be getting weaker by the day. I dunno....
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2008 : 04:44:13 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
| I can't think of how I might leave hair in a public mail box.... |
Yeah, I kind'a wonder about that. But we shed hair all the time and I suppose a strand or so might ride in on an envelope. Or something -- our current DOJ being what it is, the hair could have had help. But that suspicion leaves open the question of if it were planted, why not plant one of Ivins' hairs? Then you'd have a dead cert. As it stands, what we have is a dead researcher and a case that looks to be getting weaker by the day. I dunno....
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I have visions of this 3 inch layer of hair accumulating over the years in the bottom of every public mail box.... |
-Chaloobi
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2008 : 04:45:45 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dude
What I mean is, there is no presumption of innocence.
If a person is accused of wrongdoing, they are proclaimed guilty. You then have to prove innocence, as opposed to the accuser proving guilt.
Hell, maybe its always been this way, I dunno. Its not right though.
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Yeah, I assumed OJ was guilty right from the white bronco chase... And despite the verdict, I'm pretty sure he killed those two. |
-Chaloobi
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2008 : 21:50:28 [Permalink]
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New article:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26279202/
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2008 : 07:29:36 [Permalink]
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Has the FBI screwed it up again? Yeah, probably. Indeed, they're gaining a reputation for incompetence and outright knavery second only to the Bush Administration itself.
"August 8, 2008. Shortly after it was announced that Steven Hatfill would be paid $5.8 million of our money for having his life ruined by the U.S. Department of Justice, the FBI announced that it now knew who the real murderer was, but he wouldn't be going to trial either. The suspect had committed suicide. Case closed.
Obviously, Bruce Ivins couldn't face the humiliation of a trial and conviction in the face of overwhelming evidence. He took the easy way out and avoided being held in prison for years while waiting for his date with the executioner. Or did the FBI hound the man to his death because it didn't have a very good case? I don't know, but I do know that the FBI does not have a very good track record in recent years when it comes to investigating and prosecuting high profile crimes.
This is an agency that puts its faith in pseudoscientific gadgets like the polygraph (don't call it a lie detector) and pseudoscientific techniques like criminal profiling.
The FBI can't even be trusted with DNA testing. Remember FBI analyst, Jacqueline Blake who falsified statements about following protocol in over 100 DNA analysis reports? She dumped extraction blanks that "might have contained contaminating DNA before sending the samples through the computer-operated genetic analyzer that typed the DNA." Her misconduct "could have been detected by close examination of the electronic files produced by the genetic analyzer," but no one checked. Hence, “Blake's record of contamination-free testing for more than two years did not receive scrutiny.”* An FBI press release assured us that all is well with DNA testing. Yes, and we should be assured that there is nothing wrong with their labs that test fingerprints, bullets for lead, bomb squads, etc. It's not very reassuring when we all know what happens to whistleblowers like Frederic Whitehurst who go public about the abuse of forensic science by the FBI: they are not welcome, to put it mildly.
So, excuse me if I'm skeptical when the FBI says it has the goods on somebody. Remember Richard Jewell? Brandon Mayfield? Wen Ho Lee? Remember how these sleuths handled the Ted Kaczynski and the Cary Stayner cases?"
It's looking like the long & short of it is that these clowns had doodly-squat on Ivins. I've read that the idiots even went so far as to destroy the Anthrax sample they claimed was Ivins', thus eliminating evidence in what can only be described a still-open case in spite of lofty statements to the contrary.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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The Anthrax Guy
