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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2008 : 01:09:41 [Permalink]
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Zeked.....
| I just don't know. I see what we have as unsustainable |
Agreed!| Strong evidence that the biggest and baddest work hand in hand with government. |
Always have! The more corrupt the Government, the bigger and badder they become. The most egregious example in American history has been the Bush Administration coupled with a heavily Republican dominated Congress. | ...but government would need to drastically reduce spending, and the Fed really has to put a stop to their massive inflation. |
Would the military spending on Iraq be a part of that "drastic reduction"?
Would unpleasant news from the Fed to the markets slow that inflation rate?I think neither of these prerequisites could happen in time to ward off a depression.
As crazy as it sounds, I think the economy is beyond repair and the US empire is at an end. |
And there is no remedy for this inevitable disaster. No change of stewardship in all the branches of government that can long forestall or prevent economic collapse and the consequent implosion of America as a superpower? Obama, McCain, Nader, nor anyone nor any change in the Congress can prevent economic disaster? Fiscally, we are doomed?| Attack Iran, and other sympathetic OPEC members start depegging the dollar in return. Oil producers have the US by the balls. |
No shit Sherlock!, as the children say! And has the past eight years of Bush, Cheney, several Texas congressmen and the unholy neocon coalition that we have endured in Washington had anything to do with this? Who of the Preidential candidates is the most likely to bomb, bomb, bomb Iran? What are your politics, Zeked?| If we could ensure there are legal constructs to hold property rights and individual liberty as inalienable, we could very likely burn the bastards. |
Who are the bastards? Name them, Zeked!| The system currently seems biased against the individual. The cost of litigation alone, makes this a corporate favored system right off the bat. |
A stronger laissez-faire approach to commerce and the ethics of the corporate world, smaller and more impotent government, and a leave the markets alone policy will inevitably lead to the courts refusing to entertain such litigation. The cost will not even be a germane factor, there will be no consumer litigation! Government by Corporation is the ultimate goal of the extreme right wing fiscal Republicans!| This is my first time to have any outlet of expression for these ideas, so don't expect much. I don't warrant any credibility concerning any of these matters. |
Neither do I, other than any credibility I garner here. I am not an economist but I do recognize malfeasance and corruption in high places when I see it and I have seen an enormous amount of it in the government of the United States during the last eight years! What are your politics, Zeked?
This being the Politics folder, are your concerns exclusively with fiscal problems, Zeked, or do you have opinion on any of the social issues associated with politics?
And, what are your politics, Zeked? |
| Edited by - bngbuck on 08/25/2008 14:29:24 |
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Zeked
Skeptic Friend
USA
90 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2008 : 19:33:25 [Permalink]
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I've taken surveys that indicated my views were libertarian, but such definitions are subjective and of limited value. It certainly means nothing to me other than a lable that can be misconstrued.
I don't do well with goosestep-marching to a particular party. Capo di Tutti Capi, choose which one will allow me to pursue my little adventures in free enterprise and is the least likely to kill me in the process. Who is more inclined towards reasoned diplomacy? Who will most likely drop nukes of preemption? Hmm, tough choice... not. The downside is a tax on air, but at least I won't be dead. |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2008 : 22:41:28 [Permalink]
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Zeked.....
OK, OK, so you're something that is apocryphally known as an Independent - rather like the marginalized "agnostic" (who comes in various strengths of persuasion in religio-philosophical discussions.)
I also feel that goosestepping is for geese and labels are for designer clothing; but, as if you didn't know, my thrice-repeated question was not directed to elicit a generic and ephemeral description of your politics of the moment, but rather a specific response as to which party in the Congressional races and which Presidential candidate do you, zealous Zeked, intend to vote for in the November 2008 national election?
Eloquent evasion will only protect you so far, Zeke! I want true measure of your conservatism defined in terms of action, not glittering nor glimmering nor glowering generalizations!
Who you gonna vote for? This time!?| The downside is a tax on air, but at least I won't be dead. |
You might! My patent attorney has advised me that ownership of the atmosphere may be an issue as far as my filing is concerned, so I am now doing a search on the process of catabolic oxidation, and I hope to obtain pending status in a few months.
If you would like to purchase a use permit in advance, at a substantial discount, please contact buck@hotairbloviation.com
By the way: When you tire of Economics 169, many of us here (or at least I) would love to hear more about "biomagnetic stimulation techniques and devices."
BNG |
| Edited by - bngbuck on 08/25/2008 22:50:21 |
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Zeked
Skeptic Friend
USA
90 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2008 : 12:07:00 [Permalink]
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Until the conventions conclude, it would be unwise to declare who I would vote for. Unlike the media, I have yet to see a finalized ticket. My support has been, and will be with Ron Paul.
I am a realist. Obama seems likely to win the Democratic party ticket, but he will only have my support by the fact I will not vote for McCain.
***
My biomagnetic stimulation research began in April 1986, in an effort to stimulate the retina to produce patterns of light, phosphenes, in my brother who was in a long vegatative state and rapidly declining in health. The thought was to find a way to stimulate neural processing that could perhaps encourage some amount of pathway recovery. I had built EEG and galvanic biofeedback devices to monitor response to aural, tactile and visual stimulation. These were eliciting positive responses in my brother, and were increasingly effective over time. He expired before I had an effective phosphene stimulation machine developed, and I questioned the ethics of using the device even if I had completed it.
I continued to build and experiment, using bulky electromagnet headgear and massive thyratron power supplies through the early ninties. I abandoned direct brain stimulation for various reasons, but most significant, I found that there was an analgesic effect when applying a pulsing magnetic field near areas of pain, and that muscles, (cramps and strains) could be relaxed almost instantly and the pain removed with a short session. Headaches and, to a lesser degree, toothaches could be soothed. I had experimented with pulse rep, pulse shape, session durations and field intensity. I had a fair idea of what worked on me.
With neodymium and samarium cobalt magnets becoming more affordable and more powerful, I experimented with placing these permanent magnets on a motorized rotating shaft to obtain pulsing magnetic fields, with the poles rotating about the axis. Compact, cheap but not as effective or controlled as an electromagnetic system. This seems to be an effective mechanical analgesic device that is very inexpensive to make. I have built and given away hundreds of these mechanical devices and have an overall positive feedback on its effect on various pain.
Menstrual cramps are the highest reported postive effect, knee injury the lowest. The idea was patented and long ago expired, it is, generally and conceptually, public domain.
I can go into detail of the devices and the researched understanding of how rapidly changing magnetic fields effect tissues and biochemistry, but I think there needs to be a new thread for such a discussion. Health or pseudoscience, your choice. |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2008 : 12:13:06 [Permalink]
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Until such research is presented, which it hasnt been in mainstream medicine, it remains pseudoscience.
Electrical currents do affect the body, magnets do not. Most magnet therapies Ive heard about use only magnets placed over the body in various places, this is shamtastic, if you have data that shows eletromagnatism has positive results we'd love to see it. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
| Edited by - BigPapaSmurf on 08/26/2008 12:16:35 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2008 : 12:57:10 [Permalink]
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| Actually, there's been a lot of solid research on using pulsed magnetic fields to heal broken bones faster. Not sure how much faster, but it seems to work to some extent. A lot of the fixed-magnetic scammers point to the pulsed-field research and squalk "see, it works!" |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Zeked
Skeptic Friend
USA
90 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2008 : 13:29:47 [Permalink]
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Bigpapa
There is a great deal of scientific evidence and research.
It is not a question "if" pulsed magnetic fields effect biological tissue, it is to what extent and what result.
I can hold a tape demagnetizer to my eyes and see a slight flicker, caused by chemical changes in the retina. MRI does wonderful biological/magnetic interactions with tissues for the purpose of imaging, but these are very low rep. Electroshock therapy is being replaced by magnetic cranial stimulation - similar to the thyratron devices I used early on - (hold the crap on that).
I am repulsed (get it?) by the claims surrounding magnetic therapy. Testing the exit speeds of snails on a hot plate indicates they have a higher tolerance for pain/discomfort under pulsed magnetic fields. The real juicy stuff gets to testing of the electrical impulse response of tissues (squid nerve fibers are used frequently), in a research environment. Lots of pure science has been done, lots more to do.
Brazil had been doing much of the early research, (1988 on), and proper research is slowly getting into the US.
Liars and scammers will profit off of ignorance and gullible types. One very good reason I give my devices away for free, and just ask folks to tell me how it works for them. I try to convince them that static field magnetic therapies have zero credibility. Rarely do I get my point across. I follow the research, the scientific peer review research, but have no reason to make official claims of effectiveness for anything.
I edited my poor grammer to some extent. Hope it helps. |
| Edited by - Zeked on 08/26/2008 13:48:02 |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2008 : 05:06:54 [Permalink]
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I didnt say anything negative about pulsed magnetic fields, because I do not know.
So how exactly did you determine the "positive responses" of your brother? |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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Zeked
Skeptic Friend
USA
90 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2008 : 05:30:54 [Permalink]
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BigPapa
A new thread maybe? I would enjoy a critical review.
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
 Posted - 08/27/2008 : 13:13:43 [Permalink]
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Zeked.....
Until the conventions conclude, it would be unwise to declare who I would vote for. Unlike the media, I have yet to see a finalized ticket. My support has been, and will be with Ron Paul.
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Unlike the media, I see two graven-in-stone tickets - [Obama&Biden} and {McCain&X}!
Are you anticipating a Hillary volte-face, or a Reagan Ressurection Rapture in the two political dog-and-pony shows?
And you are supporting Ron Paul where? In the crotch? Paul died way back in the primaries, on June 12th to be exact.. He is no more likely to ressurect in the McCain/Bush candidacy than Ronnie Raygun is likely to appear in person as the Ghost of Politics Past! Then get real! "Obama seems likely to win the Democratic party ticket" Likely! You have really been busy the past eleven weeks. Late bulletin, Zeke, Obama is the presumptive nominee and will be confirmed tomorrow!| he will only have my support by the fact I will not vote for McCain. |
Well, better a day late and a dollar short than shooting one's self in the anus!
If you will not vote for McCain (the first words of incandescent brilliance that I have heard from your remarkable multi-lingual vocabulary) then you will either not vote (that includes votes for Ron Paul, the apostle Paul, and the Pauli Girl); or you will vote for Obama. If you do, let me be the first to welcome you to the real world!
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2008 : 15:16:25 [Permalink]
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Zeked.....
| A new thread maybe? I would enjoy a critical review. |
As it was my suggestion that you comment on the subject, let me urge you to indeed start a thread on this subject. A cautionary - choose the wording of your OP carefully. You can quickly end up a jugged Brer Rabbit in the thicket of sophisticated engineer and techie skeptics that inhabit this site! You may not enjoy the derision that frequently arises full blown Randi-like from an this audience of skeptic/scoffers. There will be clarion, nay, klaxon calls for evidentiary material - lots of it! Praeparatus, praeparatus!
For myself, I have followed the advent and "development" of biomagnetics from the Jurassic period of early Nikken (I was in Japan at the time) up to the research at Vanderbilt published last June. Although I do not present myself as an expert in any sense of the word. I remain agnostic. I am particularly interested in experimental results from any studies of extremely high gauss (or tesla) exposure (MRI or higher levels 1.5T to 3.0+T) to mammals, particularly the higher primates like you and me. If you have reference to experimentation in this area, I would be grateful.
I would be interested in any bona fide, serious, peer reviewed, studies of this phenomenon that you can present in addition to your own work, which for the moment most will consider anecdotal unless you can demonstrate otherwise. Good luck! |
| Edited by - bngbuck on 08/27/2008 15:42:49 |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2008 : 15:37:00 [Permalink]
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BPS.....
| Electrical currents do affect the body, magnets do not. |
Sorry, BPS, this is incorrect. Magnetic fields of high strength do in fact affect the body in a variety of ways. For a primer, see: wiki
Exactly what manipilation of high gauss magnetic fields, pulsed or static, will affect what tissue in what manner, seems to be a clusterfuck of confusion today. Zeked claims considerable experience in this arena, I will be interested in his experimentation and the valid experimental studies that he may be able to cite as substantiation for any claimed theraputic (or destructive - military magnetic death rays - if you have a McCain agenda) effects of pulsed high-gauss magnetic fields applied to living tissue.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioelectromagnetics |
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Zeked
Skeptic Friend
USA
90 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2008 : 16:39:28 [Permalink]
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It is a, significant movement..
Biden as VP. What a shit!
I'll put together something for biomag stim that is pure science and fact. Just to help folks realize what is currently mainstream accepted.
Now bngbuck, take that degauss device and have it ready. Put some iodine on a scratch, feel it burn. Place the degauss over the scratch. Scale of 1-10, 10 being the worst ever experience, 1 being barely noticeable. Rate before and after. Well?
Does it matter what you think? So there we are.
I'll see what I can do.
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2008 : 17:37:58 [Permalink]
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Zeked.....
I do not currently have a degaussing device of any size in my toybox, although I am shopping for a pretty good sized electromagnet to prove my theory that the Sun is made out of Iron!
What I do have are several pretty large N45 neodymium block magnets 4"x2"x2". About a 450 pound lift each. Without some form of magnetometer, I have no idea of the strength of their fields, but I would guess it at least equal to a small degausser.
Now you want me to wave these blocks slowly over a scratched spot, move them rapidly, or just let them sit on my wound, in order to get pain relief? I can simulate pulsing, but not at 60 hertz!
I kind of understood you to be buying or peddling some of the static magnetic field bullsh.. theory in addition to the latest conceit -"pulsed magnetic field therapy", but I may be wrong and I'll woo no woo-woo until it's time!!
Give me the invocation, O Master! |
| Edited by - bngbuck on 08/27/2008 17:39:30 |
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Zeked
Skeptic Friend
USA
90 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2008 : 20:33:22 [Permalink]
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bngbuck
If you really are interested in certain sciences, maybe it is best that you research them on your own so you can appreciate the effort required in gaining knowledge. Be up on what you are down on. Keep up on what you are up on. Be a skeptic for a reason other than verbal assualt.
"I can simulate pulsing, but not at 60 hertz! " Sure you can, just think about it. Just be careful, blocks of that size require great caution and care. PVC pipe, just saying.
P.S. try a spectrograph on the sunlight, great way to see the iron. Cheap and easy spectrograph construction using an old CD/DVD as the dispersion element. http://resource.npl.co.uk/protons_for_breakfast/downloads/pfb_spectroscope_instructions.pdf
Here is a pic of my nephew building one a few years back. http://zeked.fileave.com/Spectconstruct.jpg |
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Free markets?
