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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
 Posted - 09/01/2008 : 23:13:38
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I found out from PZ Myers.
Too much to quote or even summarize...I'll just give the link to Myer's site and you can read the rest there. He's got links to other sites, one of them notes that even at the DNC there was trouble.
Though it seems the Republicans may have been worse.
When both parties act like this, I think that means trouble for your country. Or am I over-reacting?
I keep wondering if abolishing political parties and PAC's in the States would be a good thing. Everyone just runs locally, and the President is chosen by a strict popular vote, as opposed to having to go through any party "nomination".
Course it would help if people would follow their Constitution more...
Makes one wonder: Does effective/manageable governance become impossible once the population of the governed people reaches a certain point?
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
Edited by - the_ignored on 09/01/2008 23:33:04
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26024 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2008 : 10:12:55 [Permalink]
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| It's not the Republicans, it's the cops. Doesn't really matter what sort of protestor you are, the cops have to keep the protesters in line. If they don't make arrests, they're not doing their jobs, right?! |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2008 : 10:30:07 [Permalink]
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It seems that she was arrested when arguing against the arrest of two of journalists.
She was bugging a stressed-out policeman and rather than waste his time with her, he cuffed her too. Not unusual, I know a few people to who it happened.
I dunno why the two reporters were initially arrested though (incitation to riot seems to me like a blanket statement) but Goodman's seem fairly fair game.
I think that policy is to lock up potential trouble makers and sort them out after the facts rather than risk a riot taking place.
Now, if she is still in jail after the end of the convention, then something more is going on and I'll get worried. |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2008 : 10:38:28 [Permalink]
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Apparently, she has already been released.
Seems acceptable to me. At least, no pepper spraying or tazering was involved. |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9691 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2008 : 11:42:24 [Permalink]
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| The intimidation by the police with preemptive strikes against potential demonstrators seems more like what I would expect from totalitarian states. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2008 : 13:04:54 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Simon
Seems acceptable to me. At least, no pepper spraying or tazering was involved. |
No, if you want to be pepper sprayed, you have to offer the riot police a flower.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2008 : 13:31:23 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
The intimidation by the police with preemptive strikes against potential demonstrators seems more like what I would expect from totalitarian states.
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Ahhh, you missed out on the real fun back in the sixties. Hell, in those days the police could murder a black panther while he slept.
Honest though, the police are very stupid. These arrests play right into the hands of the demonstrators. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2008 : 14:54:02 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
The intimidation by the police with preemptive strikes against potential demonstrators seems more like what I would expect from totalitarian states.
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Ahhh, you missed out on the real fun back in the sixties. Hell, in those days the police could murder a black panther while he slept.
Honest though, the police are very stupid. These arrests play right into the hands of the demonstrators.
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Exactly right, and in many cases the demonstrators go out of their way to cause a confrontation, back then, and, no doubt, now.
I wonder where the Phelps Klan is. There's lots of gay folk in both parties and it would seem that the conventions would be opportunities without parallel: "GOD HATES FAG POLITICIANS!"
Oh. Right. They're stupid but not crazy. 
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9691 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2008 : 16:26:25 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
Honest though, the police are very stupid. |
I've heard it is a pre-requisit to join the force. Even more so than the Armed Forces.
These arrests play right into the hands of the demonstrators.
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Too bad the media isn't making enough big deal about it. I would have thought that misscarriage of justice would have been interesting for them.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2008 : 18:07:56 [Permalink]
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At least there are not charging the crowd and there has been no deaths.
It happened a few years ago (I think it was 2000 or so) in a G8 meeting in Italy that a demonstrator was beat up to death... |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2008 : 19:10:50 [Permalink]
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Mab said:
| I've heard it is a pre-requisit to join the force. Even more so than the Armed Forces. |
Mab, I know you have a serious anti-US thing going now...
Do I appear stupid to you? Just curious. Because, well, I spent 4 years in the US Army.
And correct me if I am wrong, but haven't you served in the military of your country as well....? While I realize you didn't volunteer, I'm sure you have other options for your mandatory government service. So were you stupid?
Or maybe your English isn't good enough to grasp Kil's meaning when he said the police were stupid? He was saying that they did something dumb, not that they ARE dumb.
(edited for coherence... lol)
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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| Edited by - Dude on 09/02/2008 19:34:17 |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2008 : 19:24:10 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Simon
At least there are not charging the crowd and there has been no deaths.
It happened a few years ago (I think it was 2000 or so) in a G8 meeting in Italy that a demonstrator was beat up to death...
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Simon, just because it could be worse doesn't mean what happened is in any way acceptable. People have a constitutional right to peaceably assemble. Why do you think charging people with nebulous crimes like "planning to incite a riot" in order to disperse them is appropriate behavior for the police to engage in? Because that seems to be what you are defending.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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Zeked
Skeptic Friend
USA
90 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2008 : 19:44:18 [Permalink]
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I can't find any reference to previous court cases concerning "suspicion to riot". Which one of the latest fascist laws in this fair land allowed this term to come to use?
Tom Cruise and his precog crime unit to the rescue.
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Zeked
Skeptic Friend
USA
90 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2008 : 21:07:38 [Permalink]
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Only in "Rebellion or Invasion" when "the public safety may require it" may the privilege of habeas corpus be suspended, says the Constitution.
Suspicion to riot.
Looking a bit, the first time I find this kind of wording concerns the arrest of John Merryman for participation in the Baltimore riot in 1861, when Lincoln declared martial rule, (yeah, it says martial rule, not martial law I don't find a difference). Folks were blowing shit up and were actually pretty violent. Many were arrested for possible future crimes and rioting. Merryman applied for a writ of Habeus Corpus and was later released without charges.
So I still can't find precendent for "suspicion to riot".
The historical case doesn't seem to be a nice reflection of what it takes to make such a charge - suspension of habeus corpus and martial rule.
I hope someone can shed light on this for me. I don't want to listen to Amy Goodman explain it. H.R. 1955/S-1959 or HR 1585 Sec. 1615. I'd really like to know the justification of this term "suspicion to riot".
Seems like bullshit.
OK, it seems it is bullshit http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/09/01/protests/index.html
Just checked, those house bills are not law, yet. Whew! |
| Edited by - Zeked on 09/02/2008 21:32:30 |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2008 : 21:37:33 [Permalink]
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It IS bullshit. A giant steaming load of it.
Makes me ill to think we would arrest people because we think they are going to do something illegal.
Shit... by that logic we should pre-emptively arrest every single politician and lawyer.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9691 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2008 : 22:08:12 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dude
Mab, I know you have a serious anti-US thing going now...
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You're right, that was too much. I apologise.
Regarding military service, there are many different things to do in the service. I did my basic training with a guy who really was dumb. However, after basic training he was placed to handle the general supply store. I went to the electronics troubleshoot-and-repair squad. If that guy had landed in infantry instead of the air force, he'd be in the cannon-fodder squad.
Back when I did my mandatory military service, practically every man in the country had to do it. Which meant that even the shallow end of the gene-pool had to be assigned some duty, even men who aren't really suited for it. I've heard many stories from people who hated every single day they had to serve. (As for me, there were days I didn't enjoy, when I was out in the field and couldn't get enough sleep or when the K9-squad promised a good thrashing because I somehow had offended them by being too friendly chatting with their CO. That week went uneasy until I finally decided they were just making empty promises (or maybe they just never found the right opportunity - which means I made a bad judgement call).)
Talking about the shallow end of the gene-pool, if GW. Bush has to call in reserves and national guard to send to Iraq, I guess the US military can't afford to too picky about who gets admitted into the service. Do they have some kind of intelligence standard you have to pass to enter service, or do you get placed only depending on the score?
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Republicans arrest peace activist
