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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
 Posted - 10/20/2008 : 12:59:04 [Permalink]
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I'd add a provision that runoffs are mandatory until one candidate wins a majority of the votes cast. So if there were 10 names on the ballot and three people each won 25ish percent, you put those three on a ballot and everyone votes again. Then if none have >50%, you take the top two and have another runoff.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2008 : 17:23:45 [Permalink]
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That'd be weird in the pick-your-top-three voting, Dude. If a candidate gets three points for every first-place pick, two points for every second-place pick and one point for third place, then what a "majority" is becomes kinda odd.
Let's say there are 100 voters. If, for example, Obama and McCain evenly split the first-place picks, and those voters pick some random assortment of 3rd-place candidates, then Obama and McCain each wind up with 150 points. But say Ralph Nader gets 80% of the second-place votes, he winds up with 160 points and the Presidency. And really, that's as it should be, since a large majority would find him acceptable, even if he wasn't their first choice.
Now, since if one candidate got all the 1st-place votes he would get 300 points, then it'd be kind of strange to say that Obama got 50%, McCain got 50% and Nader got 53%. On the other hand, if you count up all the points possible - 600 - then a unanimous 1st-place vote winds up being only 50%, and since that's unlikely, then every election would wind up in run-offs.
This isn't completely realistic, of course, since some people are going to pick (for example) Obama #1 and McCain #2 (or either one as #3), but then again, some people will pick Nader as #1.
Perhaps run-offs should occur when the margin of victory is less than 1% or so. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2008 : 17:43:47 [Permalink]
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Meh.... throw out that 1st, 2nd, 3rd choice stuff. What happens if people don't pick #2 or #3?
Straight up votes for one candidate with runoffs until one person has the majority is the way to go, imo.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2008 : 18:00:29 [Permalink]
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Then you wind up with the situation that the Electoral College was supposed to prevent: candidates heavily campaigning in California, Texas and New York, and ignoring all the other states. Picking the top three prevents this by making second and third choices matter, in that spreading a smaller amount of money around in a wider net can get a candidate more points that a large amount in a few states.
As for voters leaving second and third choices out, they simply disenfranchise themselves. What happens now when a person neglects to vote for President but selects candidates for all of the Congressional, state and local races on the same ballot?
It'd be good to work a "None of the above" checkbox into the works somehow, too. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2008 : 21:36:45 [Permalink]
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I'm not in favor of abolishing the electoral college.
Thats what I get for dropping 1/4 of what I was thinking into the thread.. LOLCONFUSION!
Keep the electoral college.
To win the electoral votes of a state requires you to win a majority of the votes cast.
In order to get one candidate to a majority you have mandatory runoff elections until one gets >50%. The specific mechanics should be something like having the top three vote winners be the only names on a second ballot, then if one doesn't get >50% the top two on another ballot.
Something along those lines would provide a clear winner every time. It would allow people to vote their true feelings the first time around, and then if their candidate didn't make it to the second ballot they can still vote for the remaining candidate who is closest to their views.
I would like to see voter registrations be tied into the IRS database as well, and if you show up to vote in the presidential election you earn a tax discount for the next four years, maybe we could get more than ~half the country to participate.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2008 : 06:47:19 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dude
I would like to see voter registrations be tied into the IRS database as well, and if you show up to vote in the presidential election you earn a tax discount for the next four years, maybe we could get more than ~half the country to participate.
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Why aren't all American citizens automatically elegible and registered to vote? It's their country too...
It would remove the problem of having republicans disenfranchising people who actually are eligible to vote. It would simplify administration of an election.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2008 : 08:39:59 [Permalink]
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Most of them are entitled to vote Mab; but they have to register themselves, it is not automatic as in Sweden. And most just do not make the effort or have the time of registering (I am not sure where you go for that; the town-hall?).
That's what ACORN does, it goes from door to door and collect names and addresses to register people for them.
The current 'scandal' is that some of ACORN employees decided to skip the tiring door to door bit and fill up the applications themselves for people that never existed... |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2008 : 09:47:46 [Permalink]
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Lots of places have voter registration. I once registered at a local book store, the owner had a little desk set up.
Many states are now using the DMV (department of motor vehicles, where you get your drivers license) to register voters. So if you get a drivers license or state ID, you are automatically registered.
In the US we also use voter registration databases as the jury pool. So many people refuse to register to vote because they don't want to end up stuck on some retarded jury (OJ Simpson anyone?) for months. You can't work, the stipend you get for jury duty is enough to buy you a lunch, so people really try to avoid it.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2008 : 10:10:21 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dude
Lots of places have voter registration. I once registered at a local book store, the owner had a little desk set up.
Many states are now using the DMV (department of motor vehicles, where you get your drivers license) to register voters. So if you get a drivers license or state ID, you are automatically registered.
In the US we also use voter registration databases as the jury pool. So many people refuse to register to vote because they don't want to end up stuck on some retarded jury (OJ Simpson anyone?) for months. You can't work, the stipend you get for jury duty is enough to buy you a lunch, so people really try to avoid it.
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Makes sense.
I see no easy way out of this one... |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2008 : 14:39:06 [Permalink]
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I just saw on the news today there are about 5 million American citizens that are not allowed to register because they have a criminal record.
Someone who has served his time, and by doing so repaied his/her debt to society is not a "true" citizen anymore in the strictest sense? I think that's f*cked up.
Can someone explain "No taxation without representation" to me?
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2008 : 14:53:31 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
I just saw on the news today there are about 5 million American citizens that are not allowed to register because they have a criminal record.
Someone who has served his time, and by doing so repaied his/her debt to society is not a "true" citizen anymore in the strictest sense? I think that's f*cked up.
Can someone explain "No taxation without representation" to me?
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A lot's of countries are like that, actually. |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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chefcrsh
Skeptic Friend
Hong Kong
380 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2008 : 17:10:19 [Permalink]
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It is true in a sense Dr. Mabuse, but it is for felony crimes. However, since drug abuse has been prosecuted as felony this means that many of the current felons were nothing but drug users, many of whom are clean, sober and productive.
From my own experience it is not extremely difficult for non violent felons to have their rights restored once they have proven to be rehabilitated (after sentence, parole, probation are served and one has return to civil society), but it must be done by a judge hearing ones argument and so a lot of felons don't know how to go about it.
You probably didn't know this because felons are often denied entry visas to foreign countries. So even though they may have a passport, they may not be able to travel. probation
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2008 : 17:54:11 [Permalink]
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Ricky said:
| People who don't care should not be choosing who is president. |
Maybe.
But if they had a reason to go vote maybe they would pay attention.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Constitutional crisis
