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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
 Posted - 10/20/2008 : 07:25:30
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I found this piece of information on Friendly atheist and it really disturbs me.
Atheists are really the last religious minority it is politically correct to bash on...
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Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2008 : 07:53:29 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Simon
I found this piece of information on Friendly atheist and it really disturbs me.
Atheists are really the last religious minority it is politically correct to bash on...
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Thus it is and has always been. Thus it will always be. Welcome to the midden of Spiritual Society.
I would vote for anyone but Dole. She has done nothing in the Senate beyond keeping Jessee's old chair warm and is an even bigger waste of the space. At least with Helms, you always knew when he was awake. Indeed, I disliked her way back when she was one of Ronney's hacks -- Department of Transportation, as I recall.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2008 : 23:51:56 [Permalink]
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Bring it on. Associating their God with the likes of Elizabeth Dole is one of the best things the GOP can do for atheism. BTW, I didn't see anything that associated Democrat Kay Hagan with that atheist group, aside from putting her picture into the same ad. But I'd vote for her anyway.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2008 : 05:10:51 [Permalink]
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The whole thing is being blown far out of proportion -- neo-con SOP. Hagan merely went to a fund-raiser that was being held by an atheist organization. | Back in August, the campaign of North Carolina Senator Elizabeth Dole issued a press release accusing Democratic opponent Kay Hagan of associating with atheists. I joined many others in the atheist blogosphere in denouncing Sen. Dole's bigotry. Still, I do not think I was alone in viewing the act as simply yet another case of political mudslinging. However, it now appears than Dole's campaign has decided to make Hagan's willingness to meet with nonbelieving Americans a central issue. Sen. Dole is now campaigning on anti-atheist bigotry, and this can no longer be ignored. |
I wonder; what if a bunch of atheists were raising funds, legally I might add, for Dole? Would she turn the money down? Need I answer that question?
Dole is in a real danger of losing her Senate seat (and if there's really some god or other out there, please sir, let it happen). She can't run on her record because she'd been nothing more than a rubber stanp for Bush the last 6 years. Her greatest accomplishments are of leveraging lots pork for NC & elsewhere -- including the Fabulous Bridge to Never-Neverland so beloved, then spurned by Palin, among other rip-offs of public money. So really, what else does she have except to unload on the godless? And even that could have dubious effect.
See, the only ones who really care about atheists are the more rabid of the far-right-wing, double-dipped-religious conservatives. For most, the Republican in the street, as it were, it's live & let live. They might vote for Dole, but not much due to Hagan's brief, dry flirtation with a handful of atheists. They'd do it for the usual reasons; always voted Republican & the sainted Jessee was one; regard Dole's pork procurment as a benefit to society; distrust Hagan's proposed programs, and so forth.
Bitching about atheists will ultimatly, I think, prove unproductive.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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astropin
SFN Regular
USA
970 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2008 : 08:47:51 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Simon
Atheists are really the last religious minority it is politically correct to bash on...
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Except that we are not a religious minority. |
I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.
You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.
Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.
Infinitus est numerus stultorum |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2008 : 09:33:53 [Permalink]
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astropin.....
| Except that we are not a religious minority. |
Well....., there have been significant, heated discussions around here on this subject! Consider definition #7 of Webster's New International Unabridged:Religion 7 a : a cause, principle, system of tenets held with ardor, devotion, conscientiousness, and faith : a value held to be of supreme importance <by making democracy our religion and by practicing as well as preaching its doctrines -- W.O.Douglas> <Marxism was his religion> <he has made a religion of pleasure, and it is a brave thing to do these days -- Gerald Sykes> b : a quality, condition, custom, or thing inspiring zealous devotion, conscientious maintenance, and cherishing <a religion with him to preserve in good condition all that had lapsed from his mother's hands -- Thomas Hardy>
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My personal view is that in the broad sense above, Skepticism may be the only religion that makes any sense, and it is indeed a minority religion compared to those faiths that superstitiously insist on the existence of God.
I am quite prepared to argue the relevance of the word faith as it pertains to the tenets and precepts of formal skepticism! If you wish, lay on, MacDuff! |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2008 : 10:38:30 [Permalink]
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Except that we are not a religious minority.
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While, I don't consider atheism a religion; I think that it is a religious something.
It is relevant to the realm of religion.
The same way that I think bald is relevant to the realm of hair-style.
So, as atheists are definitively in minority in the US, they are a minority as far as religion is concerned...
I'd say.
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Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 10/21/2008 : 13:05:21 [Permalink]
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RELIGION, n.
A daughter of Hope and Fear, explaining to Ignorance the nature of the Unknowable.
"What is your religion my son?" inquired the Archbishop of Rheims.
"Pardon, monseigneur," replied Rochebriant; "I am ashamed of it."
"Then why do you not become an atheist?"
"Impossible! I should be ashamed of atheism."
"In that case, monsieur, you should join the Protestants." ~~ Ambrose Bierce
FAITH, n.
Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel. ~~ Also the excellent Mr. Bierce
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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astropin
SFN Regular
USA
970 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2008 : 13:17:16 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Simon
Except that we are not a religious minority.
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While, I don't consider atheism a religion; I think that it is a religious something. |
What?
Originally posted by Simon
It is relevant to the realm of religion.
The same way that I think bald is relevant to the realm of hair-style. |
Bald is not a hair style. Atheism is not a religion.
Originally posted by Simon
So, as atheists are definitively in minority in the US, they are a minority as far as religion is concerned... |
It's not a religion in any sense of the word....including "definition #7" (from bngbuck's post......IMHO).
I think your "bald hairstyle" is a perfect example. That's an oxymoron. |
I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.
You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.
Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.
Infinitus est numerus stultorum |
| Edited by - astropin on 10/21/2008 13:18:08 |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2008 : 14:39:59 [Permalink]
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But, the absence of something is still relevant.
My point was that a religious position is different than a religion.
Ok; let's try another (slightly insulting) example: healthy or non-diseased, is a disease status.
When people are asked to fill up polling forms, the atheist box they tick is under the religious heading. |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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astropin
SFN Regular
USA
970 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2008 : 14:59:11 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Simon
But, the absence of something is still relevant.
My point was that a religious position is different than a religion.
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I do not regard atheism as being a religious position. It is the "default" position. Not buying into any religion (being atheist) is not any form of religion in and of itself.
Originally posted by Simon
When people are asked to fill up polling forms, the atheist box they tick is under the religious heading.
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Well it's not my problem they don't know what they are doing.  |
I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.
You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.
Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.
Infinitus est numerus stultorum |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2008 : 16:39:33 [Permalink]
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Given that Christians can only lay claim to 33% of the world population, and they are #1, it is safe to say that all religions are minorities.
While the "bald is not a hair color" bit is funny, "not applicable" is a perfectly legitimate response to "what's your hair color?" And so is "not applicable" to "what's your religion?" And the "not applicable" data get statisticated (ha!) the same way as all the other religous data. In other words, atheists get a slice in the "world religions" pie chart whether they like it or not.
That said, atheism is difficult to quantify, but best estimates seem to indicate that due to remnants of strict communism in Russia and China, actual atheists (not "non-religious," or "agnostic," or "spiritual") can lay claim to perhaps 5% of the world's population, and maybe half a percent of the U.S. population.
That puts us at #8 on the world list, and between #5 and #7 in the U.S. (we are competitive with Assembly of God in terms of raw numbers, about 1.5 million).
Bill Maher's claims that the strictly non-religious ("we're not the crazy ones") make up 20% of the population are pretty much pure poppycock, despite my enjoyment of that line, earlier. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2008 : 19:30:43 [Permalink]
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I do not regard atheism as being a religious position. It is the "default" position. Not buying into any religion (being atheist) is not any form of religion in and of itself.
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It is not a form a religion; but it is a position pertaining to religion... A religious position. Well, that's how I would say it,. Semantics mostly.
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Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2008 : 10:05:39 [Permalink]
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More Hagan bashing here.
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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Kay Hagan and the Godless americans
