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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
 Posted - 10/21/2008 : 07:33:24
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Ok, this is my take on Joe the Plumber. Feel free to add yours:
#1. He's anti-Obama and he went to the rally to put Obama on the spot about how his taxes would go up under Obama's plan if he bought his boss' plumbing business. Never mind that financially he doesn't have a prayer of buying the business and that outside the most optimistic version of this fantasy he would categorically benefit from Obama's proposed tax policy.
#2. He didn't bother to look at the facts:
- His business would have to make 250k above it's expenses - aka profit - before his tax rate would go up in Obama's plan.
- Most small businesses either never make that much or their owners use numerous clever strategies to ensure those profits never get above 250k. So even if it was very successful, he would still likely be able to avoid the tax increase.
- The flip side of that coin is that under McCain's plan, he would see no benefit at all.
#3. Obama's mistake was to say something about "spreading the wealth around."
- Progressive taxation is not about income redistribution, it's about right-sizing the tax burden across the spectrum of incomes to minimize for everyone the unavoidable pain of financing civilization
- But that doesn't matter, what counts is the comment, the impression, the spin; not the reality. This condition is the cancer on our political system today. How can you elect people on proposed policy when the actual proposals are ignored in favor of beating on candidates for a slip of the tongue?
#4. The irony of Joe the Plumber angrily stepping up to be the poster child of oppostion to policy more or less engineered to help him is.... what? Assinine? Mystifying? Sad.
- I've heard many middle income people rail against progressive taxation. It's not fair! Rich people already pay more in taxes!
- Flat taxes are fair. 25% of a million is much more than 25% of 60k! Why should they pay a HIGHER percentage than me?
- And to explain to these folks why that's actually not fair? Ugh.
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-Chaloobi
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2008 : 11:55:52 [Permalink]
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Back in the day, a business' goal would be to have a 30% profit margin. 250K is 30% of 833K. 833K at $75/hour would be 11,111 man hours, or less than six full-time plumbers. That would be very doable.
In this day-and-age, though, perhaps a 10% profit margin is more realistic. That'd mean a gross of $2.5 million, or a little more than 15 full-time plumbers. Still doable.
But surely with a business that size, these people would need to be licensed. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2008 : 12:41:50 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Back in the day, a business' goal would be to have a 30% profit margin. 250K is 30% of 833K. 833K at $75/hour would be 11,111 man hours, or less than six full-time plumbers. That would be very doable.
In this day-and-age, though, perhaps a 10% profit margin is more realistic. That'd mean a gross of $2.5 million, or a little more than 15 full-time plumbers. Still doable.
But surely with a business that size, these people would need to be licensed.
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I don't doubt it is doable. I wouldn't bet on Joe pulling it off any time soon, but it's certainly doable. And if you think about it, if Joe's able to pull off 1/4 million in profits, he's doing very well. Higher taxes in the context of his current struggles where he's already way behind on his tax bills and probably lots of other bills, it's easy to get pissed off. But if he's got a thriving business, the idea of paying a little more in taxes is less of an issue - hence the whole progression to begin with. |
-Chaloobi
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2008 : 12:54:57 [Permalink]
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Joe the Plumber is too dumb to just shut the fuck up.
If he buys his business, I wish him well in it. I also hope that he can run it more skill & ability than he's shown thus far.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2008 : 13:17:39 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
Joe the Plumber is too dumb to just shut the fuck up.
If he buys his business, I wish him well in it. I also hope that he can run it more skill & ability than he's shown thus far.
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Ouch. That rude pundit's got a potty mouth.
Joe does appear to be in over his head a bit - as in he has no idea what he's talking about. Can you say 'exploited?' |
-Chaloobi
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2008 : 16:32:33 [Permalink]
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Chaloobi.....
I think Joe Dumber Plumber is a Republican ringer, a political crowd plant in an Obama event, a shill, a Rovian RNC invention; designed to be injected into the campaign process to flesh out McPalin's new-found populism.
He is a hired, trained, highly paid amateur actor in the Republican Kabuki Theater that Rove is highly skilled in orchestrating - as in the infamous "Swift Boat Veterans" of the televised 2004 Feces-Slinging Championships that so thoroughly tarred John Kerry.
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2008 : 19:19:15 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by bngbuck
Chaloobi.....
I think Joe Dumber Plumber is a Republican ringer, a political crowd plant in an Obama event, a shill, a Rovian RNC invention; designed to be injected into the campaign process to flesh out McPalin's new-found populism.
He is a hired, trained, highly paid amateur actor in the Republican Kabuki Theater that Rove is highly skilled in orchestrating - as in the infamous "Swift Boat Veterans" of the televised 2004 Feces-Slinging Championships that so thoroughly tarred John Kerry.
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The idea did cross my mind. But the press might have found that out by now...
It seems to me like he is a staunch Republican (registered even) and he bought in their 'Obama will raise your taxes' BS... |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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chefcrsh
Skeptic Friend
Hong Kong
380 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2008 : 19:51:52 [Permalink]
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Makes a lot of sense since any investigation has turned up that he is mostly false anyway. If not he is sadly stupid, as from what I have read he and his employer are being checked on now by the area authorities for working without license.
http://wizbangblue.com/2008/10/16/breaking-news-joe-the-plumber-is-a-keating-relative.php
ETA Haha found this (unverified) too:
| Turns out that Joe Wurzelbacher from the Toledo event is a close relative of Robert Wurzelbacher of Milford, Ohio. Who's Robert Wurzelbacher? Only Charles Keating's son-in-law and the former senior vice president of American Continental, the parent company of the infamous Lincoln Savings and Loan. |
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| Edited by - chefcrsh on 10/21/2008 19:54:00 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2008 : 01:32:12 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by bngbuck
Chaloobi.....
I think Joe Dumber Plumber is a Republican ringer, a political crowd plant in an Obama event, a shill, a Rovian RNC invention; designed to be injected into the campaign process to flesh out McPalin's new-found populism.
He is a hired, trained, highly paid amateur actor in the Republican Kabuki Theater that Rove is highly skilled in orchestrating - as in the infamous "Swift Boat Veterans" of the televised 2004 Feces-Slinging Championships that so thoroughly tarred John Kerry.
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Hired & highly paid he might be, but his training is seriously flawed. Yeesh, whadda mook!
That thought began lurking in the back my mind when I heard he'd sought Obama out. It became a little firmer when I read of the Keating relationship. But I'll point no fingers yet; if it's true he'll probably screw up again and tell somebody with a microphone all about it.
If Rove is indeed behind Joe, he's losing his touch.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2008 : 06:06:55 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by bngbuck
Chaloobi.....
I think Joe Dumber Plumber is a Republican ringer, a political crowd plant in an Obama event, a shill, a Rovian RNC invention; designed to be injected into the campaign process to flesh out McPalin's new-found populism.
He is a hired, trained, highly paid amateur actor in the Republican Kabuki Theater that Rove is highly skilled in orchestrating - as in the infamous "Swift Boat Veterans" of the televised 2004 Feces-Slinging Championships that so thoroughly tarred John Kerry.
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No, this is too ad hoc looking for that. I think Joe annointed himself Republican ringer and went to the rally to put Obama on the spot and show the world the "truth." When he managed to get himself on tape and Obama said the famous 'spreading the wealth around is good for everybody' revealing himself as the closeted socialist that he is, the desperate McCain campaign pounced. This is apparently the best they can do - but like the cartoon suggests, if you repeat a lie enough, people begin to accept it as truth. That's their stratgey - lie often and consistently. Dredge up some moron who doesn't know better to be the poster child and make it seem a little more real....
Oh, and they DID try to Swiftboat Obama with "Obamanation" by the same author. It didn't get much traction though. Maybe the public's a little wiser this time? Not sure. |
-Chaloobi
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| Edited by - chaloobi on 10/22/2008 06:07:31 |
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Thoughts On Joe The Plumber
