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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2008 : 04:31:44 [Permalink]
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| Help me with nivellation. What is that about? |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
 Posted - 10/31/2008 : 05:04:51 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Gorgo
Help me with nivellation. What is that about?
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Equal distribution of wealth. Tax those who make lots of money and use that money to supplement the people who make very little. Goal is to diminish the gap between rich and poor as much as possible. |
Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2008 : 08:07:51 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by tomk80
Originally posted by Simon
Indeed; Europeans socialist parties are socialist in name only.
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Don't know about other countries, but for the Netherlands that statement really is bullshit. The dutch Socialist Party really does adhere to socialism, quite to the letter, arguing strongly for nivellation policies and strong governmental involvement in public and economic life. The part of pay that is above a certain amount for the people in the first (senate) or second (congres) chambers of parliament are even withheld and "donated" to the party.
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Wow... Ok; I didn't know that.
The socialist parties I know are the French and Italian ones which essentially are social democrats (slightly to the left of the centre). |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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WarfRat
New Member
49 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2008 : 10:27:37 [Permalink]
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Tomk80
Nivellation puts people at a certain monetary level on the dole? Like a Basic Income Guarantee or the Guaranteed minimum income that was bantered about here in the 70's.
That's a really interesting concept to combat poverty in a society. It would definitely free a person(s) to pursue more productive means. But How would they combat those who abuse the system?
It sounds like a Homes First initiative to combat homelessness. |
"I believe...that one benefits the workers...so much more by forcing through reforms which alleviate and strengthen their position, than by saying that only a revolution can help them." |
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2008 : 13:00:54 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by WarfRat
Tomk80
Nivellation puts people at a certain monetary level on the dole? Like a Basic Income Guarantee or the Guaranteed minimum income that was bantered about here in the 70's.
That's a really interesting concept to combat poverty in a society. It would definitely free a person(s) to pursue more productive means. But How would they combat those who abuse the system?
It sounds like a Homes First initiative to combat homelessness.
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In the Netherlands there is an age-dependent minimum income. It's not much, but enough to get around with a single job.
Nivellation can be achieved by different means, depending on the situation. Progressive taxation is one used in all countries to a bigger or lesser extent. In some periods taxation for the highest incomes has been up to 70%, nowadays it is around 52%. Income guarantees can be used, but other ways to achieve them are child support or subsidies for the rent of a house. In the Netherlands there have been problems with support for the unemployed, which was a bit too easy to get and too high. This has been largely fixed in the last decades. Support of the unemployed needs to be a last straw to grab onto, not a luxury taken for granted.
Nowadays, people who are on welfare in the Netherlands have an obligation to apply for jobs, no matter how crappy, unless they are unable to work due to disease or other circumstances. They are also obliged to take a job if they are hired. This obligation is suspended if you have worked several years, with a rule of thumb that for every year of work you are allowed a month of support to find a job on your own level. Courses are provided to increase chances of finding work. Abuse still occurs, but as far as I can see is reduced to a minimum. Of course there are those who disagree with me on that.
In the end, no matter which system you put into place, there are going to be those who abuse it. We have to weigh the chance of abuse against the social obligation of helping people make ends meet. |
Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2008 : 18:06:52 [Permalink]
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| Sweden works pretty much the same. We've had a Social-Democratic government for roughly 3/4 of the last 100 years. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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WarfRat
New Member
49 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2008 : 07:41:43 [Permalink]
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Yeah, there will always be abuses in the system. Guess the degree of which depends on the society.
Dr Mabuse
Hjalmar Branting was a genius. |
"I believe...that one benefits the workers...so much more by forcing through reforms which alleviate and strengthen their position, than by saying that only a revolution can help them." |
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The down side to crying wolf
