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astropin
SFN Regular
USA
970 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2008 : 12:52:25 [Permalink]
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So the guy is a complete idiot....at the end of the day, who cares?
(Without looking it up) Who did George W's invocation? Or Clinton's? |
I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.
You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.
Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.
Infinitus est numerus stultorum |
| Edited by - astropin on 12/30/2008 12:53:08 |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
 Posted - 12/31/2008 : 07:54:48 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by marfknox
Robb wrote: | Then it will backfire. Most of the fundies you talk about do not like Rick Warren anyway. His teaching (in Purpose driven Life) is not biblical. |
I've read the Bible and I've read a bit about the Bible written by Bible scholars, and I can say that as a pretty intelligent person of 30 years, I have no idea what would be a most correct, literal, honest, or true reading of the Bible. And I'm pretty confident in saying that you don't either. |
Here is how I read the Bible. http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/90-158.HTM
| Also, why would a Christian do this for a pro choice canidate? |
This is a weird question to ask considering that the invocation has no impact what-so-ever on our government's policy on abortion. So why would Rick Warren or any other person asked to give the invocation care what Obama's stance on that particular issue is? |
Right ot wrong many people will take his invocation as an endorsment of the man and his policies.
| Also, plenty of Christians are in favor of legal abortion, in at least some forms and under at least some circumstances. In fact, many Protestant Evangelicals supported Roe v. Wade when the decision was made, including the Southern Baptist Convention: http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070528/blumenthal |
True, but if some think abortion is wrong and other think it is ok then one side has to be wrong. My view is that the bible is clear that abortion is wrong.
| Maybe if he can preach the Gospel, it might be a good idea. But I doubt he will be allowed to. |
How would preaching the Gospel be even remotely appropriate at this event? He's not being asked to do a sermon, he's being asked to do an invocation. He's not among his own private congregation; he's speaking before the whole, diverse population of the United States. This isn't a church service, it's the inauguration of the leader of a nation. You don't give Rick Warren enough credit. He doesn't need to be micro-managed by Obama or his staff. I'm sure Warren knows well enough not to fart when asked to sing. |
Exactly, he has the whole world listening, to pass on that chance to tell people what you believe to be true and what the bible says about hell ands salvation would be trajic. Who cares if it is appropriate or not. I doubt he does it. I wonder if the name Jesus will even be spoken or will it be some generic God that makes everybody feel good.
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Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2008 : 07:58:52 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by marfknox
I see his point. Just as I think it is inappropriate for Robb to question how Warren could agree to do the invocation since Obama is Pro-Choice, I think it is inappropriate for people to insist that Warren is such a terrible or divisive choice because of his stance on gay marriage. |
Advocating killing people is not the same thing as advocating limiting marriage.
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Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2008 : 08:29:49 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
Originally posted by marfknox
I see his point. Just as I think it is inappropriate for Robb to question how Warren could agree to do the invocation since Obama is Pro-Choice, I think it is inappropriate for people to insist that Warren is such a terrible or divisive choice because of his stance on gay marriage. |
Advocating killing people is not the same thing as advocating limiting marriage.
|
Talk to your god then; he's advocated the killing of a lot of people, especially in the OT.
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2008 : 08:30:03 [Permalink]
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Except, of course, for the fact that foetus ain't people.
Let's keep that in mind, I mean, unless you are talking about his stance on death penalty, which is, indeed, killing people... |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2008 : 08:40:26 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by the_ignored
Originally posted by Robb
Originally posted by marfknox
I see his point. Just as I think it is inappropriate for Robb to question how Warren could agree to do the invocation since Obama is Pro-Choice, I think it is inappropriate for people to insist that Warren is such a terrible or divisive choice because of his stance on gay marriage. |
Advocating killing people is not the same thing as advocating limiting marriage.
|
Talk to your god then; he's advocated the killing of a lot of people, especially in the OT.
|
Can you create anyone? How come most people that say this never bring up the fact that he also advocated killing his son for you. |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2008 : 08:50:29 [Permalink]
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"Can you create anyone"?
I've heard that people called "Parents" do it all the time...do they have the right to kill their own kids?
As for "god killing his son for me"? Big deal. It was only for 3 days. Those people killed in the OT as a result of god getting pissed off that them stayed dead. And, since they died because god was mad at them, it's safe to assume that they didn't go to heaven, either.
Besides, killing his own kid would still be a barbaric act, would it not? Well, not to you people I guess.
I love the xian double-standard of morality. |
>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2008 : 09:01:22 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by the_ignored
| I've heard that people called "Parents" do it all the time...do they have the right to kill their own kids? |
I did not have the power to make my sperm and my wifes egg combine or grow into a human being.
| As for "god killing his son for me"? Big deal. It was only for 3 days. Those people killed in the OT as a result of god getting pissed off that them stayed dead. And, since they died because god was mad at them, it's safe to assume that they didn't go to heaven, either. |
If Jesus stayed dead we would all be going to hell.
| Besides, killing his own kid would still be a barbaric act, would it not? Well, not to you people I guess. |
Would killing my own daughter to save 2000 people from death be a barbaric act?
| I love the xian double-standard of morality. |
If you love it then why don't you become one?
|
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2008 : 09:12:04 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
Originally posted by the_ignored
| I've heard that people called "Parents" do it all the time...do they have the right to kill their own kids? |
I did not have the power to make my sperm and my wifes egg combine or grow into a human being. |
As I said: Parents do it all the time.
| As for "god killing his son for me"? Big deal. It was only for 3 days. Those people killed in the OT as a result of god getting pissed off that them stayed dead. And, since they died because god was mad at them, it's safe to assume that they didn't go to heaven, either. |
If Jesus stayed dead we would all be going to hell. |
Not necessarily. He was supposed to "pay the price" for us, wasn't he? Him staying in hell would actually come a lot closer to paying the alleged price of "our sins" a lot more than just three measly days.
I notice that you never addressed the problem of what happened to the people that biblegod had ordered killed in the OT...
| Besides, killing his own kid would still be a barbaric act, would it not? Well, not to you people I guess. |
Would killing my own daughter to save 2000 people from death be a barbaric act?
|
It would if you had set the whole system up so that it was the only way for things to work out in the first place, as your god did.
| I love the xian double-standard of morality. |
If you love it then why don't you become one?
|
I'm hoping you know that it was both sarcasm and a criticism fo the christian way of thinking.
|
>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2008 : 09:27:20 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
Can you create anyone? |
Might makes right, huh? Most of us learn to eschew such a morality on the playground.| How come most people that say this never bring up the fact that he also advocated killing his son for you. |
Because the barbarism of a death cult is nothing to be proud of.| Would killing my own daughter to save 2000 people from death be a barbaric act? |
Yes. The lesser of two evils is still evil.
On another note:| I did not have the power to make my sperm and my wifes egg combine or grow into a human being. |
Wow, are you actually claiming that God directs the meeting of egg and sperm? That He micromanages everything? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2008 : 09:28:41 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by the_ignored
Originally posted by Robb
Originally posted by the_ignored
| I've heard that people called "Parents" do it all the time...do they have the right to kill their own kids? |
I did not have the power to make my sperm and my wifes egg combine or grow into a human being. |
As I said: Parents do it all the time. |
Then how did I make my childrens cells reproduce inside my wifes uterus?
| Not necessarily. He was supposed to "pay the price" for us, wasn't he? Him staying in hell would actually come a lot closer to paying the alleged price of "our sins" a lot more than just three measly days. |
No, you do not understand. When we sin we are sinning against an infinite God, the only payment is an infinite punishment. You cannot pay for your sin with your death only, that is what hell is for. Jesus was an infinite being and his death could atone for sin against an infinite being.
| I notice that you never addressed the problem of what happened to the people that biblegod had ordered killed in the OT... |
Yes I did when I asked you if you can create a human. God has every right to create or kill as he chooses. You are antoagonistic to anything that claims more knowledge than you.
| I love the xian double-standard of morality. |
If you love it then why don't you become one?
|
I'm hoping you know that it was both sarcasm and a criticism fo the christian way of thinking.
|
It was a joke, I am not the idiot you think I am. |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2008 : 09:40:41 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by Robb
Originally posted by the_ignored
Originally posted by Robb
Originally posted by the_ignored
| I've heard that people called "Parents" do it all the time...do they have the right to kill their own kids? |
I did not have the power to make my sperm and my wifes egg combine or grow into a human being. |
As I said: Parents do it all the time. |
Then how did I make my childrens cells reproduce inside my wifes uterus? |
You ***** her. That got the process going. If you hadn't done that, then nothing would have happened. Besides, as Dave said, does Might make Right?
| Not necessarily. He was supposed to "pay the price" for us, wasn't he? Him staying in hell would actually come a lot closer to paying the alleged price of "our sins" a lot more than just three measly days. |
No, you do not understand. When we sin we are sinning against an infinite God, the only payment is an infinite punishment. You cannot pay for your sin with your death only, that is what hell is for. Jesus was an infinite being and his death could atone for sin against an infinite being. |
Actually, that "infinite" being crap doesn't help your case. Why? He allegedly lived forever before the crucifiction, knew he'd be out of it in three days and would then be back in heaven.
We, as finite being, only live decades at most, yet when we pay the price, it's eternal suffering. Explain this disparity. It's like a guy getting a million dollar lawsuit pressed against him, but some rich guy slaps down a fiver and the judge says "ok, the fine is paid". The defendent says: "5 bucks, shit...I can afford that".
The judge tells him: "nope, for you, the fine is a million dollars".
Defendent: "WTF"?
| I notice that you never addressed the problem of what happened to the people that biblegod had ordered killed in the OT... |
Yes I did when I asked you if you can create a human. God has every right to create or kill as he chooses. You are antoagonistic to anything that claims more knowledge than you. |
And you're subscribing to an inconsistent and anti-human morality to boot. If we can't judge god to be evil when he does something that we consider bad, then how can we judge him to be good when he does something that we consider good? If we can't judge him because his standards are different then ours, then he's an amoral being, and he can't be called "righteous" or "unrighteous" at all.
Maybe some cartoons will help expose your "thinking".
| I love the xian double-standard of morality. |
If you love it then why don't you become one?
|
I'm hoping you know that it was both sarcasm and a criticism fo the christian way of thinking.
|
It was a joke, I am not the idiot you think I am.
|
I figured I'd just make sure, one can never be too careful nowadays.
|
>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2009 : 02:29:50 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
How come most people that say this never bring up the fact that he also advocated killing his son for you.
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Did He really? I always thought it was the Romans on the insistance of the Jewish Religious Leadership who killed Jesus. And they didn't take any orders from God...
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2009 : 02:46:05 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
Then how did I make my childrens cells reproduce inside my wifes uterus?
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Once you got her pregnant, it's an automatic process. If you want any claim at all for the zygote/embryo/foetus growing, you can always say you put food on your wife's plate.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2009 : 10:46:33 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Originally posted by Robb
How come most people that say this never bring up the fact that he also advocated killing his son for you.
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Did He really? I always thought it was the Romans on the insistance of the Jewish Religious Leadership who killed Jesus. And they didn't take any orders from God...
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Being omnipotent, god would know that the Romans/Jews were going to kill him. Also, being omnipotent, getting killed has to be his intent. Omnipotence renders the entire thing a stupid and pointless excercise. Couldn't an omnipotent being just impart the knowledge to everyone alive while at the same time not interfering with their free will? Well, duh, yes, since it is an omnipotent being.
Robb, I reccomend you google "Epicurus".
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Rick Warren to do invocation on January 20th?
