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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2009 : 14:06:45 [Permalink]
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I'm all for Mr. Heather keeping his job under the circumstances, and even support his company finding him another bus. Had there been no "atheist" busses to move him to, the company would have been well within its rights to terminate him for refusal to do his job.
I just want to say that if an atheist driver were in the reverse situation, the atheist should be given the same consideration. And if there were no non-religious busses for the atheist to drive, the atheist would face being justifiably fired.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
 Posted - 01/22/2009 : 20:02:14 [Permalink]
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USA Today has a story on this running today:LONDON — Rejecting protests by Christian groups, Britain's advertising watchdog agency has given the go-ahead to a campaign to plaster atheist signs on hundreds of buses and other vehicles across the country.
The Advertising Standards Authority ruled that the campaign, which uses the slogan "There's probably no God," was unlikely to mislead or "cause serious or widespread offense." |
I find it amazing that there's such controversy here. No doubt that if a Christian group ran ads saying "go visit the church of your choice" there'd be nothing to make of it at all.
I hadn't followed this story much, but I find this to me rather amazing, too:| The campaign has prompted one Christian bus driver, Ron Heather of Southampton, England, to walk off the job in protest. When he first caught sight of the banner, Heather said, "my first reaction was sheer horror." |
What a loser!! And he's no doubt not alone. For some Christians, it really is absolutely horrifying to even have it suggested-- that Yahweh might not be real.
Can anyone cite an example of the converse? Would any skeptic/atheist ever see a sign saying something like "Yahweh is probably real-- go to church or burn in hell" and be even remotely horrified? Moreover, would any of them quite their job as a bus driver if a bus ran such ads?
It's different, of course. Being in such a minority (right wing claims to the contrary), we're used to seeing the there-is-a-god bit at every turn.
Would a vegan driver quit if ads for cheese started running on her or his bus?
It's all just stupid-- and shows how far atheists as a group still have to go before we're considered normal. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2009 : 22:55:43 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Cuneiformist
Would any skeptic/atheist ever see a sign saying something like "Yahweh is probably real-- go to church or burn in hell" and be even remotely horrified? |
I'm horrified every damn time, but since something like that happens almost every day, I've become inured to it. Just because I'm used to living with the horror doesn't mean it's not horrific. I just no longer scream and run.| It's all just stupid-- and shows how far atheists as a group still have to go before we're considered normal. |
Who was it who said, "in the insane society, the sane man must be considered insane?" Mr. Spock? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2009 : 23:26:43 [Permalink]
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If, as I expect will eventually happen in the USA as it has in Western Europe, secularism becomes the norm and religion the minority belief system, perhaps we atheists will be able to console and advise religious people. We can give them tips on how to survive and ignore an abusive atmosphere in which one is treated as a reviled outsider for one's beliefs.
Of course, judging by Western Europe, the USA's religionists won't actually be persecuted as we were. But we need to take into account their more sensitive natures. They have a lot of sainted martyrs to emulate, after all.
It's their perceptions that count. After all, a mere refusal to accompany them in prayer will appear to them as the vilest of persecution, the poor things. And we'll be there with our coping skills, to help them through those rough times.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 01/22/2009 23:39:26 |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2009 : 08:49:16 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by Cuneiformist
Would any skeptic/atheist ever see a sign saying something like "Yahweh is probably real-- go to church or burn in hell" and be even remotely horrified? |
I'm horrified every damn time, but since something like that happens almost every day, I've become inured to it. Just because I'm used to living with the horror doesn't mean it's not horrific. I just no longer scream and run. |
Really? That sort of thing just gives me a chuckle. And let's be clear-- no one ever says "there probably is a god..."; it's always along the lines of "God is real and you're going to hell if you don't kiss his ass" or whatever. But either way, I am not bothered by it.
Of course, perhaps I should be, since there are way more people who think like that than not. But my gut feeling is that by and large, such thinking-- the sort of passive there-is-a-god thinking that most (?) people have-- isn't so destructive.
| It's all just stupid-- and shows how far atheists as a group still have to go before we're considered normal. |
Who was it who said, "in the insane society, the sane man must be considered insane?" Mr. Spock? |
[/quote]Not sure-- but it sounds like something he might say... |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2009 : 10:20:19 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Cuneiformist
Really? That sort of thing just gives me a chuckle. |
I bet it's a nervous sort of chuckle, like laughing in the face of death. The same sort of chuckle you'd make if someone had a gun to your head. (If you disagree, I'll just claim that you're in denial, trying to put on a big macho-man disguise.  )| And let's be clear-- no one ever says "there probably is a god..."; it's always along the lines of "God is real and you're going to hell if you don't kiss his ass" or whatever. |
It's not the "probably" part that I find horrific, but the other clause. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2009 : 16:30:34 [Permalink]
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I take threats of hellfire seriously, as I feel they usually are genuine expressions of the violence that many religionists would like to see happen to their "enemies."
Like seeing a child being cruel to animals, it is a warning sign of potential future violence in the real world. I tend to get quite angry and vocal in response to such threats.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 01/23/2009 16:31:16 |
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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular
Norway
1273 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2009 : 19:55:19 [Permalink]
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| I think there is a difference in motivations, it isn't like an argument about your favourite colour. One group thinks it is trying to save your immortal soul, the other just thinks it is trying to help you see the truth. |
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Zebra
Skeptic Friend
USA
354 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2009 : 20:56:38 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by On fire for Christ
I think there is a difference in motivations, it isn't like an argument about your favourite colour. One group thinks it is trying to save your immortal soul, the other just thinks it is trying to help you see the truth.
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OffC, they're both trying to help people see what they think is the truth. You could say the second group is also trying to save people - from wasting their lives immersed in fantasy, & having their money/time sucked up by churches which promise something they can't deliver.
The illustration in your signature may appeal to testosterone-laden believers frustrated with the passivity of Jesus on the cross, but it doesn't reflect the 'truth' (such as it is) of the stories in the Bible. Where is Jesus-as-sacrificial lamb-who-died-for-your-sins, in that illustration? |
I think, you know, freedom means freedom for everyone* -Dick Cheney
*some restrictions may apply |
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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular
Norway
1273 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2009 : 22:11:45 [Permalink]
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But you're missing my point, regardless of what is actually true, how can you compare wasting time with wasting souls?
In my opinion the horror felt by religious people at these kinds of slogans/attitudes will always be stronger than atheists' (in response to similar anti atheist propoganda) because of the religious beliefs they subscribe to.
An atheist cannot understand true religious zeal because atheism is not a religion. (barring people who have turned away from religion) |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2009 : 22:20:31 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by On fire for Christ
An atheist cannot understand true religious zeal because atheism is not a religion. |
I can see the consequences of true religious zeal and be absolutely disgusted and horrified by it. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2009 : 23:07:25 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by On fire for Christ
An atheist cannot understand true religious zeal because atheism is not a religion. |
I can see the consequences of true religious zeal and be absolutely disgusted and horrified by it.
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And some of us remember being religious.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2009 : 00:01:18 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
And some of us remember being religious. |
I remember being religious, but I never had "true religious zeal." |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2009 : 01:20:08 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by On fire for Christ
But you're missing my point, regardless of what is actually true, how can you compare wasting time with wasting souls? |
I'll bite.
"Wasting time": All of us experience time, and come to value whatever free time we may wrest from our lives. Almost everyone accepts that time exists, or at least something is happening that fits the bill.
"Wasting souls" is a nonsense phrase to a nonbeliever in the existence of souls. A simple oxymoron.
A "soul" as a thing separate from our mortal consciousness is a religious concept. If one buys into most religions, a "soul" is vital to the mythology. There is just as much evidence for a soul as there is for a deity: None.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 01/24/2009 01:27:05 |
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Zebra
Skeptic Friend
USA
354 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2009 : 09:33:57 [Permalink]
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| But you're missing my point, regardless of what is actually true, how can you compare wasting time with wasting souls? |
Easily.
For those whose expectations of "reality" are based in reality: time is all we have. "Soul" is a construct with no meaning outside of our earthly, time-limited existence.
For those whose expectations of "reality" are based in a collection of writings from more than 1800 years ago, selected for that collection from a larger body of written works by humans, & filled with errors & inconsistencies: "souls" are all we have. "Time" is a meaningless construct (given their much-hoped-for-but-unproven eternal existence). |
I think, you know, freedom means freedom for everyone* -Dick Cheney
*some restrictions may apply |
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Christian man refuses to drive atheist bus
