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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 03/14/2009 : 04:36:56
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Extending the un-Patriot Act More than a dozen of the GOP's most conservative members on Thursday introduced a bill to reauthorize controversial PATRIOT Act provisions set to expire later this year.
The group of House Republicans – which include Whip Eric Cantor (R-Va.), Conference Chairman Mike Pence (R-Ind.) and Judiciary Ranking Member Lamar Smith (R-Texas) – want to extend for an additional 10 years the ability of national security agencies to conduct “roving” wiretaps, have access to library patron information and greatly expand the reach of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. |
I am curious; exactly how many "terrorists" have been convicted since the inception of this crappy, anti-Aerican piece of legislation? How many al Quada bomb plots have been disrupted?
I admit to being a little behind the curve on this topic, so if anyone knows of any, do speak out. With reference, please.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2009 : 06:35:21 [Permalink]
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No freakin' way is how I think it'll go down. These Republican douches forget they are not in power anymore.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2009 : 07:48:25 [Permalink]
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They probably know and are hoping for it not to work.
This way they can start yelling how Obama does not care about protecting Americans from terrorists... |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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Mycroft
Skeptic Friend
USA
427 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2009 : 13:40:55 [Permalink]
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Well, what this does is gets everyone's vote on record. If two years from now there is another 9/11 type attack that might have been stopped by provisions in the Patriot Act, then they got a list of people who voted against it to use in the next campaign.
You can also consider the possibility that these people may really think extending these provisions is a good idea. |
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The Rat
SFN Regular
Canada
1370 Posts |
 Posted - 03/14/2009 : 19:41:20 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Mycroft
You can also consider the possibility that these people may really think extending these provisions is a good idea.
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They may very well think that, but if they do they're stupid. If they don't believe it but think that sensible people will fall for it anyway they're stupid. Either way, they're stupid. |
Bailey's second law; There is no relationship between the three virtues of intelligence, education, and wisdom.
You fiend! Never have I encountered such corrupt and foul-minded perversity! Have you ever considered a career in the Church? - The Bishop of Bath and Wells, Blackadder II
Baculum's page: http://www.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=3947338590 |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2009 : 20:44:08 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Mycroft
Well, what this does is gets everyone's vote on record. If two years from now there is another 9/11 type attack that might have been stopped by provisions in the Patriot Act, then they got a list of people who voted against it to use in the next campaign. |
Yes, because, if there is another terrorist attack the GOP is only going to go after and blame the Dems that voted against the Patriot Act, and then, only if it would have made a difference, yes, right.
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Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2009 : 21:49:59 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by The Rat
Originally posted by Mycroft
You can also consider the possibility that these people may really think extending these provisions is a good idea.
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They may very well think that, but if they do they're stupid. If they don't believe it but think that sensible people will fall for it anyway they're stupid. Either way, they're stupid.
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Not to mention vile enemies of democracy.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Mycroft
Skeptic Friend
USA
427 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2009 : 09:11:27 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
Originally posted by The Rat
Originally posted by Mycroft
You can also consider the possibility that these people may really think extending these provisions is a good idea.
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They may very well think that, but if they do they're stupid. If they don't believe it but think that sensible people will fall for it anyway they're stupid. Either way, they're stupid.
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Not to mention vile enemies of democracy.
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I dunno. Describing those that want this bill passed as "vile enemies of democracy" seems harsh.
There has always been a tension between the needs of the state to pursue criminals and the rights of privacy to the individuals. I hardly think that wanting to move the line a little bit in favor of the state (or in this case to keep it where it is) qualifies.
To take the only concrete example cited in the article, roving wiretaps, to me this just seems as a natural evolution based on changing technology.
When our previous wiretapping laws were written back in the late 60's, telephones where anchored to their locations. It was extraordinarily rare for anyone to have more than one, and many people had to share them on "party lines."
Forty years later our communications options are staggering, far outstripping even our most optimistic sci-fi imaginings. Not only do we all have individual cell phones, but it's not at all uncommon for a household to have more phones than people. Add to that all our other communications options, e-mail, text messaging, ICQ, AIM and their variants, twitter, facebook and so on...it just makes sense that the government's search powers expand also.
Does that make someone a "vile enemy of democracy"? I don't think so. |
| Edited by - Mycroft on 03/19/2009 09:12:18 |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2009 : 20:28:19 [Permalink]
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I think what's harsh is spying upon citizens, at home, with no warrants. Criticizing the proponents of such dictatorial practices isn't even in the same Harsh League.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2009 : 00:58:39 [Permalink]
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Every despotic action, from Nazi Germany to the half-assed vigilante mobs that spring up now & again, have something in common: they all wave the banner and spew the rhetoric of "Public Safety."
I ask again: How many individuals have been prosecuted under the Patriot Act? How many terrorist attacks have been averted?
To the best of my knowledge, none -- it was all just a control ploy for the Bush administration, and the Democratic pussies in Congress let the bastards get away with it.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2009 : 04:50:45 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Simon
Originally posted by Mycroft
Well, what this does is gets everyone's vote on record. If two years from now there is another 9/11 type attack that might have been stopped by provisions in the Patriot Act, then they got a list of people who voted against it to use in the next campaign.
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Yes, because, if there is another terrorist attack the GOP is only going to go after and blame the Dems that voted against the Patriot Act, and then, only if it would have made a difference, yes, right.
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I believe it is gaurantteed that the GOP will go after the DEMs. From Chenney's warnings to the attempt renew the Patriot Act, if another terrorist attacks occurs you can bet the GOP will have their "I told you so" moment. As cynical as it seems I believe they are counting on it. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2009 : 06:35:15 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
Extending the un-Patriot Act More than a dozen of the GOP's most conservative members on Thursday introduced a bill to reauthorize controversial PATRIOT Act provisions set to expire later this year.
The group of House Republicans – which include Whip Eric Cantor (R-Va.), Conference Chairman Mike Pence (R-Ind.) and Judiciary Ranking Member Lamar Smith (R-Texas) – want to extend for an additional 10 years the ability of national security agencies to conduct “roving” wiretaps, have access to library patron information and greatly expand the reach of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. |
I am curious; exactly how many "terrorists" have been convicted since the inception of this crappy, anti-Aerican piece of legislation? How many al Quada bomb plots have been disrupted?
I admit to being a little behind the curve on this topic, so if anyone knows of any, do speak out. With reference, please.
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IIRC it was PATRIOT Act financial transaction monitoring that smoked out Eliot Spitzer's hooker payments. He should have known better than use anything but cash to pay for a hooker. Idiot. |
-Chaloobi
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2009 : 06:40:47 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by moakley
Originally posted by Simon
Originally posted by Mycroft
Well, what this does is gets everyone's vote on record. If two years from now there is another 9/11 type attack that might have been stopped by provisions in the Patriot Act, then they got a list of people who voted against it to use in the next campaign.
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Yes, because, if there is another terrorist attack the GOP is only going to go after and blame the Dems that voted against the Patriot Act, and then, only if it would have made a difference, yes, right.
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I believe it is gaurantteed that the GOP will go after the DEMs. From Chenney's warnings to the attempt renew the Patriot Act, if another terrorist attacks occurs you can bet the GOP will have their "I told you so" moment. As cynical as it seems I believe they are counting on it.
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In that event then, who is the actual terrorist threat? And it is not inconceivable that stout blast might be manufactured toward just that end. I put nothing past these power-mongering scumbags -- sorry, Mycroft but that's the way it is. If they can cheerfully lie us into an unnecessary and disastrous war, very little is beneath them.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2009 : 06:42:28 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
Every despotic action, from Nazi Germany to the half-assed vigilante mobs that spring up now & again, have something in common: they all wave the banner and spew the rhetoric of "Public Safety."
I ask again: How many individuals have been prosecuted under the Patriot Act? How many terrorist attacks have been averted?
To the best of my knowledge, none -- it was all just a control ploy for the Bush administration, and the Democratic pussies in Congress let the bastards get away with it.
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Filthy, it took me ten seconds to find the information you are asking for:
| The Department of Justice, now headed by Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales, says that the Patriot Act has been a useful tool in finding and dismantling terrorist organizations and plots. It has disrupted over 150 terrorist threats and cells, incapacitated over 3,000 terrorists, broken up five terror cells within U.S. borders, charged 401 individuals on terror charges and convicted 212,[9] though the department does not differentiate between those captured through the new provisions of the Patriot Act, and those who were discovered by other means. |
Sounds like the Patriot Act kicks ass. They should make it permanent!
Source:
http://www.conservapedia.com/Patriot_act 
(I like the caveat at the end of the quote, basically admitting they have no idea if that information is correct.) |
-Chaloobi
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| Edited by - chaloobi on 03/20/2009 06:49:38 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 03/20/2009 : 06:54:19 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by chaloobi
Originally posted by filthy
Extending the un-Patriot Act More than a dozen of the GOP's most conservative members on Thursday introduced a bill to reauthorize controversial PATRIOT Act provisions set to expire later this year.
The group of House Republicans – which include Whip Eric Cantor (R-Va.), Conference Chairman Mike Pence (R-Ind.) and Judiciary Ranking Member Lamar Smith (R-Texas) – want to extend for an additional 10 years the ability of national security agencies to conduct “roving” wiretaps, have access to library patron information and greatly expand the reach of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. |
I am curious; exactly how many "terrorists" have been convicted since the inception of this crappy, anti-Aerican piece of legislation? How many al Quada bomb plots have been disrupted?
I admit to being a little behind the curve on this topic, so if anyone knows of any, do speak out. With reference, please.
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IIRC it was PATRIOT Act financial transaction monitoring that smoked out Eliot Spitzer's hooker payments. He should have known better than use anything but cash to pay for a hooker. Idiot.
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Heh, but buying a little extracurricular nookie is scarcely an act of terrorism, although..... never mind. 
Of course the guy's an idiot and an asshole as well, if only for stepping out on his family.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2009 : 07:59:59 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
Originally posted by chaloobi
Originally posted by filthy
Extending the un-Patriot Act More than a dozen of the GOP's most conservative members on Thursday introduced a bill to reauthorize controversial PATRIOT Act provisions set to expire later this year.
The group of House Republicans – which include Whip Eric Cantor (R-Va.), Conference Chairman Mike Pence (R-Ind.) and Judiciary Ranking Member Lamar Smith (R-Texas) – want to extend for an additional 10 years the ability of national security agencies to conduct “roving” wiretaps, have access to library patron information and greatly expand the reach of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. |
I am curious; exactly how many "terrorists" have been convicted since the inception of this crappy, anti-Aerican piece of legislation? How many al Quada bomb plots have been disrupted?
I admit to being a little behind the curve on this topic, so if anyone knows of any, do speak out. With reference, please.
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IIRC it was PATRIOT Act financial transaction monitoring that smoked out Eliot Spitzer's hooker payments. He should have known better than use anything but cash to pay for a hooker. Idiot.
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Heh, but buying a little extracurricular nookie is scarcely an act of terrorism, although..... never mind.
Of course the guy's an idiot and an asshole as well, if only for stepping out on his family.
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Don't forget hypocracy. Afterall, he was in charge of fighting against prostitution in his previous job. |
-Chaloobi
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Oh no, uh-uh, no freakin’ way!
