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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
 Posted - 03/16/2009 : 07:13:09 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JustMe
Most neuroscientists have long dismissed these near-death experiences as tricks of the brain, leaving theologians and philosophers to ponder life's existential questions. But now a group of unconventional researchers curious about human consciousness are approaching the mystery of the mind as a test of science. Their question: How do brain cells that generate electricity and proteins also produce human thought and free will? They are looking for an answer among the people who step across life's line and come back.
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These experiments meet with skepticism — and some eye-rolling — among most neuroscientists, who believe the matter is settled: The brain and mind are one. Consciousness researchers argue that science may have been too quick to box humanity into brain matter. (Mostly, they try to avoid the word "soul" to dodge the inevitable tangle of religion and the afterlife.) What if the mind exists independently, a subatomic particle of consciousness that modern science has yet to find?
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#1. I think it's fine to study near-death experiences so long as it's a science based study and they are careful not to allow their hopes to cloud the results.
#2. I think there is no mind separate from the brain. And since the brain dies at death, then so goes the mind. Note, I'm not entirely sure of that, so I'll stay agnostic probably until I die or someone finds the "consciousness" particle above. (though, it's probably a wave.  )
#3. There is no free will. See this book for reference:
http://books.google.com/books?id=eQnlRg56piQC&printsec=frontcover&dq=the+illusion+of+conscious+free+will&ei=F12-SciCJZbyMtChqcEL#PPP1,M1 |
-Chaloobi
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| Edited by - chaloobi on 03/16/2009 07:13:36 |
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JustMe
Skeptic Friend
64 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2009 : 19:25:59 [Permalink]
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For anyone who might like to answer:
Assume you will be in a serious car wreck tomorrow night. You will eventually be fine, but you need to be recussitated at the scene. In this situation, would you like to have an NDE to experience first hand what others have?
What if the experience was going to be so powerful that it would shake your current beliefs about consciousness and mind/brain separation, and change those beliefs forever. Your current reason would always be trumped by your recollection of the actual event. Would you choose not to experience it in this instance, seeing it as an avoidable introduction of error?
Ignore all the logical problems with choosing, and not choosing, and unchoosing and just answer the spirit of the question. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2009 : 19:41:55 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JustMe
For anyone who might like to answer:
Assume you will be in a serious car wreck tomorrow night. You will eventually be fine, but you need to be recussitated at the scene. In this situation, would you like to have an NDE to experience first hand what others have?
What if the experience was going to be so powerful that it would shake your current beliefs about consciousness and mind/brain separation, and change those beliefs forever. Your current reason would always be trumped by your recollection of the actual event. Would you choose not to experience it in this instance, seeing it as an avoidable introduction of error?
Ignore all the logical problems with choosing, and not choosing, and unchoosing and just answer the spirit of the question.
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I believe I understand your thought experiment. Purely subjective "experiences" (including NDE's, dreams and psychedelic trips) can profoundly impress one's thinking.
In the situation you outlined, I would hope that I would afterward be able to evaluate the mental experience objectively, perhaps seeing it as something akin to a dream. I would devoutly hope that the experience would not make me into a believer in "spirits," as I believe that path leads to madness.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 03/16/2009 19:48:19 |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2009 : 00:27:22 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JustMe
What if the experience was going to be so powerful that it would shake your current beliefs about consciousness and mind/brain separation, and change those beliefs forever. Your current reason would always be trumped by your recollection of the actual event. Would you choose not to experience it in this instance, seeing it as an avoidable introduction of error? |
If there was an experience that would permanently impair my logical and critical thinking skills, then I would prefer not to have it.
I do have experience in living in La-La-land as I used to be a Born-again Pentecostal. The restrictions that religion puts on mental processes makes one forgo so many opportunities and other kinds of experiences... Now I count those 10 years as lost forever, wasted for no good reason. I would have liked to have those back, but the church and religion screwed me. All I have left is a strong sense to discourage people from embracing religion because I know first-hand how delusional it can allow people to become. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2009 : 04:52:27 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JustMe
For anyone who might like to answer:
Assume you will be in a serious car wreck tomorrow night. You will eventually be fine, but you need to be recussitated at the scene. In this situation, would you like to have an NDE to experience first hand what others have?
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I have had dreams that fit the classic NDE out of body experience. Although I find it remarkable that I saw my self exactly where I was laying and where I was laying was at times not the usual spot. Its just that prior to falling asleep I was aware of where I would be laying. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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JustMe
Skeptic Friend
64 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2009 : 22:15:38 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by moakley
I have had dreams that fit the classic NDE out of body experience. Although I find it remarkable that I saw my self exactly where I was laying and where I was laying was at times not the usual spot. Its just that prior to falling asleep I was aware of where I would be laying.
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That's one of the things I think is neat about these out of body things...the fact that our brain must absorb and file visual details we aren't even aware of having on hand in order to assemble realistic 3 dimensional pictures from heights and angles and such that aren't typical. Or maybe I just think that because I'm not very good at visualizing stuff.
Anway, thanks to all who answered. I was a little loose with the wording, but it wasn't intended that you'd slip into religious madness or anything like that. Just that you'd fail to be satisfied with the science that indicates no mind/brain divergence from that time forward. I guess as much as anything else it was a question about the value of a rich and unique and thought provoking experience, and what you'd exchange for that. I myself would choose to have the experience, consequences and all. |
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Peering down the tunnel beyond death
