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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
 Posted - 04/04/2009 : 17:18:05 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
Thanks, Ig and Zebra for the notice and the links!
I'm watching also, and enjoying it very much, though at times Jackson has my blood pressure going up with his extremely dishonest presentation. He has most of the Creationist tricks mastered, plus he seems to have perhaps invented one of his own: Showing charts that are enormously supportive of evolution, then interpreting them as opposing science.
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He probably nicked that one from Dumbski. |
Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2009 : 19:58:18 [Permalink]
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I posted this (reply # 32) at Abbie's site: Thanks, Abbie, for standing up to science against this random hobo. It's a dirty job, but someone has to do it.
Tips for later consideration:
Being kindly while explaining science to the Creationist questioners was both right and tactically correct. It worked.
However, I think you were too easy-going with Jackson himself. Here's a guy who is scientifically trained, though certainly out of his element in genetics. Yet he got away with repeated calling hominids "monkeys." He knows better. The "monkeys" thing was a propaganda device (and a lie) aimed at his knuckle-walking followers, who think themselves all that because they don't have tails. That lie hearkens way back to the Scopes trial and earlier. It's a lie, designed to foster ignorance in the Creationist flock that Jackson feel is stupid/ignorant enough to swallow it. Jackson's monkey lie needed to be called.
He also needed to be called on his lying assertion late in the question period that he would abandon Creationism if there were scientific evidence against it. The very fact that he was standing there supporting Young Earth Creationism while possessing a bit more that a layman's understanding of biology shows this to be a lie. Also, his statement earlier that he sees scientific evidence through the filter of Genesis shows he's lying.
Jackson is a liar, and needed, however politely, to be called on his "bearing false witness."
But my criticisms are minor. I was overall amazed at how well you did, and especially how educational was your presentation. Jackson, on the other hand, was shown to be only pretending to support science, while actually attacking both it and reason itself. |
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2009 : 21:38:07 [Permalink]
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Bump.
The final ten videos of the debate, numbers 11 through 20, have now been posted at YouTube. I'll be watching them in a few minutes.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 04/05/2009 23:58:01 |
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Zebra
Skeptic Friend
USA
354 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2009 : 00:30:49 [Permalink]
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Is it inappropriate if I call you a "saint", for watching all of them?
Funny thing: noone who watched the first 10 said that the debate seemed unfinished or incomplete. Maybe someone with editing experience could piece the high points together into a 30- or 45-minute pithy, gripping video... |
I think, you know, freedom means freedom for everyone* -Dick Cheney
*some restrictions may apply |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2009 : 00:57:33 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Zebra
Is it inappropriate if I call you a "saint", for watching all of them?
Funny thing: noone who watched the first 10 said that the debate seemed unfinished or incomplete. Maybe someone with editing experience could piece the high points together into a 30- or 45-minute pithy, gripping video...
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Yes, I am a saint in that way. (Also, I'm between NetFlix offerings.)
Well, I did notice (though I didn't comment upon it) that number 10 ended abruptly. I just assumed that whatever was missing was mainly a quick wrap-up, with the minister then shooing everyone out of the church.
Since everything after the formal presentations and rebuttals was driven by audience questions rather than the logic (and illogic) of the formal statements, it was pretty much impossible to predict how much more might come.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 04/06/2009 00:58:37 |
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leoofno
Skeptic Friend
USA
346 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2009 : 14:29:10 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Zebra
Is it inappropriate if I call you a "saint", for watching all of them?
Funny thing: noone who watched the first 10 said that the debate seemed unfinished or incomplete. Maybe someone with editing experience could piece the high points together into a 30- or 45-minute pithy, gripping video...
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And maybe a car chase. I like car chases. |
"If you're not terrified, you're not paying attention." Eric Alterman
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Zebra
Skeptic Friend
USA
354 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2009 : 22:32:10 [Permalink]
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I've made it through the first 6.
IMO, the most memorable quote so far is Jackson saying, in the 4th video: "Evidence is not what matters. Proof is what matters."
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I think, you know, freedom means freedom for everyone* -Dick Cheney
*some restrictions may apply |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2009 : 23:21:09 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Zebra
I've made it through the first 6.
IMO, the most memorable quote so far is Jackson saying, in the 4th video: "Evidence is not what matters. Proof is what matters."
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It's as though he just can't think.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 04/07/2009 23:21:30 |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2009 : 21:25:14 [Permalink]
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Abbie's foe, a guy who posts on her blog named William Wallace has an entirely different take on how the debate went.
He also has the video posted on his site.
Ah, I 've just noticed that Wallace posted his opinion on Abbie's site.
The man is a real prick when he's on her site, eh? Shit, I gotta pay more attention. Nice to see that he got slapped down right afterwards.
Looks like one of the commentators caught some creationist chicanery.
Her newest post deals with one of the topics left from the debate.
Yes, this is like my fifth friggen' edit::
This has to do with the links I just posted above, about lemurs and ERV insertion events and common descent:
| Abbie pointed out that those in her field were able to recognize the different between similar insertion events and common descent. Jackson followed that immediately by claiming that scientist assumed that similar ERVs in two different species could only arrive there by common descent. |
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
| Edited by - the_ignored on 04/12/2009 22:11:48 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2009 : 21:59:15 [Permalink]
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Yeah, I just edited my reply to show that...that's where I call the man a prick.
:P |
>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2009 : 23:01:49 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by the_ignored
Yeah, I just edited my reply to show that...that's where I call the man a prick.
:P
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The man Jackson is indeed a prick. And a liar. But really, that applies to most all Creationists. You just can't argue for Young Earth Creationism without lying your ass off, and being a prick is just another tactic intended as ad hominem to belittle one's opponent.
William Wallace is one of the vilest, nastiest of fundy YECs I've ever come across. His hatred for women just adds extra stank to his gaseous emissions. To Jackson's "prick," add "hateful, lying, psychotically deranged fucktard" for Wallace.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 04/12/2009 23:02:14 |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2009 : 11:10:05 [Permalink]
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Who is this William Wallace guy trolling in the comments?
Does he has any position of preeminence in the creationist community? He is an asshole! |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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Abbie 'ERV' Smith to debate YEC Charles Jackson
