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Randy
SFN Regular
USA
1990 Posts |
 Posted - 04/09/2009 : 13:11:42
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Hm.....where do I sign up for one?
Fill up your camel back for some spare energy. Electrolysis, of course, powers the thing. I'd like to read more on this little neighborhood car...specs, range, time to percolate some power.
[Moved to the General Skepticism folder - Dave W.]
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"We are all connected; to each other biologically, to the earth chemically, to the rest of the universe atomically."
"So you're made of detritus [from exploded stars]. Get over it. Or better yet, celebrate it. After all, what nobler thought can one cherish than that the universe lives within us all?"
-Neil DeGrasse Tyson |
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Randy
SFN Regular
USA
1990 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2009 : 13:18:46 [Permalink]
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| This site just popped up of another invention while looking around for more info on the above story. |
"We are all connected; to each other biologically, to the earth chemically, to the rest of the universe atomically."
"So you're made of detritus [from exploded stars]. Get over it. Or better yet, celebrate it. After all, what nobler thought can one cherish than that the universe lives within us all?"
-Neil DeGrasse Tyson |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2009 : 13:27:16 [Permalink]
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The car runs by splitting water into hydrogen and oxygen, which takes more energy than you get back by using the hydrogen and oxygen as fuel. The guy who uses radio waves to split water is similarly running his welding machine at a net energy loss. The Japanese car company doesn't really say what powers it, other than to say an "energy generator" takes over and performs the hydrolysis. So what powers the energy generator? A battery? They don't say.
Too good to be true? Yes, definitely. The car runs cleaner than burning gasoline, I'm sure, but the electricity needed to create the reaction has to come from somewhere. If the electricity comes from solar or wind farms, it's hypothetically a clean technology top-to-bottom. But if the electricity comes from coal-fired plants, not so much.
At the very least, saying the car "runs on water" is a half-truth. It can't run on just water. That's impossible.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2009 : 19:53:46 [Permalink]
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Exactly so, H.H.
The first link simply would not work as portrayed. Either the manufacturer is deliberately lying, or the news folks screwed up another tech story, take your pick. The thing must run on hydrogen from electrolysis, if it indeed runs ay all. You certainly don't just pour in water and off you so, with the electrolysis going on as you drive. (Also, if they indeed electrolyze sea water, they'll release nasty chlorine gas.)
The second story seems clearly to be about a car running (partly, it's a "hybrid") on hydrogen created by electrolysis.
Carrying around a tank of water to electrolyze might seem a compact and safe way to pack hydrogen, but it's also at a low energy state. Carrying water just add burden. The key is how one stores the hydrogen gas, however it might be generated.
If neither of these vehicles have improved hydrogen storage, there is no story here at all.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 04/09/2009 19:55:47 |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2009 : 21:15:03 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
Carrying around a tank of water to electrolyze might seem a compact and safe way to pack hydrogen, but it's also at a low energy state. Carrying water just add burden. |
That's a good point I didn't even consider. If you need a battery to turn the water into hydrogen, the question becomes "why not just run the car off the battery?" Especially since, as you point out, adding water only makes the car heavier.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 04/09/2009 21:15:39 |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2009 : 04:17:43 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Randy
Hm.....where do I sign up for one?
Fill up your camel back for some spare energy. Electrolysis, of course, powers the thing. I'd like to read more on this little neighborhood car...specs, range, time to percolate some power.
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The video says nothing about electrolysis. "car that runs on nothing but water".
That is pure bullshit. It's a hoax.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2009 : 04:26:57 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by H. Humbert
Originally posted by HalfMooner
Carrying around a tank of water to electrolyze might seem a compact and safe way to pack hydrogen, but it's also at a low energy state. Carrying water just add burden. |
That's a good point I didn't even consider. If you need a battery to turn the water into hydrogen, the question becomes "why not just run the car off the battery?" Especially since, as you point out, adding water only makes the car heavier.
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And then you have the massive energy loss of the electrolysis, that wastes about half the energy. 
Damn, why can't news agencies hire me as a technical consultant/researcher? 
You know, thess kinds of stories only runs on Swedish News networks as April Fools gag.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2009 : 04:36:10 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Originally posted by Randy
Hm.....where do I sign up for one?
Fill up your camel back for some spare energy. Electrolysis, of course, powers the thing. I'd like to read more on this little neighborhood car...specs, range, time to percolate some power.
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The video says nothing about electrolysis. "car that runs on nothing but water".
That is pure bullshit. It's a hoax.
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Now bear with me. A car with its own elevated water tower above it could operate on the pressure of that water while it lasts. Simple, inelegant.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2009 : 04:45:09 [Permalink]
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Not very encouraging, is it?
On a related matter, one day the city streets could become silent mini interstates.
This thing is a 2-seater, reputed to get 35 mph and has a 30 & change mile range on a battery charge. Looks like fun.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2009 : 10:47:23 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
Now bear with me. A car with its own elevated water tower above it could operate on the pressure of that water while it lasts. Simple, inelegant.
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You know... (and this pains me to tell you)
During an energy conference with a number of politicians in Sweden, with invited guest professors in different energy-related sciences, one of the representatives from the Left Party (formerly communist) asked if you couldn't put some kind of wind-collecting device on the roof of cars to harness the wind-force passing by the car on the freeway, kind if like a wind mill, and putting that energy to good use powering the car.
It's on YouTube, but since it's in Swedish it'd be gibberish to you. However, the giggle you get from the professors, they're almost biting their tongues out trying not to laugh out loud, when they try in the simplest of terms to tell him that it's a tad bit more complex than the idea he just proposed.
Even a few of his colleagues in the political profession seemed embarrassed on his behalf.
There's simply no such thing as a free lunch.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2009 : 11:52:20 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
You know... (and this pains me to tell you)
During an energy conference with a number of politicians in Sweden, with invited guest professors in different energy-related sciences, one of the representatives from the Left Party (formerly communist) asked if you couldn't put some kind of wind-collecting device on the roof of cars to harness the wind-force passing by the car on the freeway, kind if like a wind mill, and putting that energy to good use powering the car.
It's on YouTube, but since it's in Swedish it'd be gibberish to you. However, the giggle you get from the professors, they're almost biting their tongues out trying not to laugh out loud, when they try in the simplest of terms to tell him that it's a tad bit more complex than the idea he just proposed.
Even a few of his colleagues in the political profession seemed embarrassed on his behalf.
There's simply no such thing as a free lunch. |
I won't laugh, I swear I won't. When I was a kid, I used to "design" all sorts of wonders as crude, smudgy sketches in paper and pencil.
Submarine jets, nuclear rocket ships, deep space ships propelled by the light pressure of incandescent lamps. A jet engine with ducted exhaust and a saddle so you could ride it.
I already understood the no free lunch business (my maternal grandfather was the developer of a failed perpetual motion machine, and so my father had taken time to explain why such things couldn't work).
But I thought it might be possible to build a ship that would be run with a screw driven via a windmill. Also a car powered the same way. But I didn't think to make it powered by its own slip-stream.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 04/10/2009 11:57:00 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2009 : 12:48:15 [Permalink]
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It's certainly being worked on. This specimen is electric with both a solar charging system and a wind-driven generator.
Not too shabby, unless it's a cloudy day and you're stuck in slow traffic.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2009 : 13:40:15 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
It's certainly being worked on. This specimen is electric with both a solar charging system and a wind-driven generator.
Not too shabby, unless it's a cloudy day and you're stuck in slow traffic.
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That's got to be about the ugliest thing I've ever seen.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Japanese car that runs on water
