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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
 Posted - 06/07/2009 : 00:26:07
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You've all heard how some xians love to use Alcoholics Anonymous as an example of a religiously based (though officially non-religious) institution that does good...usually as an example of how "god" can cure people, or an example of their "superior morality".
Well, according to the this site, when their own founder, Bill Wilson got "cured" of alcoholism, something else helped him get in touch with "god" after he stopped drinking.
Bill is quoted as saying:
It is a generally acknowledged fact in spiritual development that ego reduction makes the influx of God's grace possible. If, therefore, under LSD we can have a temporary reduction, so that we can better see what we are and where we are going -- well, that might be of some help. The goal might become clearer. So I consider LSD to be of some value to some people, and practically no damage to anyone. It will never take the place of any of the existing means by which we can reduce the ego, and keep it reduced.
See pages 370 & 371 in Pass It On. |
That site is not an official AA site, by the way.
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
Edited by - the_ignored on 06/07/2009 00:41:08
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2009 : 07:00:02 [Permalink]
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| I've always thought the 12-step method was a good method for people with low self esteem. They have so little confidence in themselves and their own will that they need to convince themselves that something outside of themselves is actually allowing them to choose healthier behavior. It's kind of neat psychology - convincing one's self that one isn't doing any actual work but still getting results. And a pretty common mentality, such as when sports figures thank God when they win a game but blame themselves when they lose. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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Science Pricktion
New Member
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2009 : 21:59:15 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by marfknox
I've always thought the 12-step method was a good method for people with low self esteem. They have so little confidence in themselves and their own will that they need to convince themselves that something outside of themselves is actually allowing them to choose healthier behavior. It's kind of neat psychology - convincing one's self that one isn't doing any actual work but still getting results.
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You ever done a 12 step program? Are you an alcoholic or an addict? I am and the 12 step program didn't do anything for me. I got to step two and decided that its bullshit. You either quit because you want to or you don't quit. Screw AA. Screw NA. Kick the covers for a while and pull yourself up. |
Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2009 : 02:10:24 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Science Pricktion
You ever done a 12 step program? Are you an alcoholic or an addict? I am and the 12 step program didn't do anything for me. I got to step two and decided that its bullshit. |
Then you obviously have more self-esteem than the kinds of people Marf said could benefit. So her musings about the 12-step program obviouslt doesn't apply to you.
You either quit because you want to or you don't quit. Screw AA. Screw NA. Kick the covers for a while and pull yourself up.
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Having talked to a few former addicts, all of them seem to agree that you rarely successfully quit until you really want to. For heavier substance abuse, it's a race against time to reach that point before the poison kills.
But when the withdrawal symptoms kick in, you really need support. Psychological and/or medical.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2009 : 04:14:27 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Science Pricktion
Originally posted by marfknox
I've always thought the 12-step method was a good method for people with low self esteem. They have so little confidence in themselves and their own will that they need to convince themselves that something outside of themselves is actually allowing them to choose healthier behavior. It's kind of neat psychology - convincing one's self that one isn't doing any actual work but still getting results.
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You ever done a 12 step program? Are you an alcoholic or an addict? I am and the 12 step program didn't do anything for me. I got to step two and decided that its bullshit. You either quit because you want to or you don't quit. Screw AA. Screw NA. Kick the covers for a while and pull yourself up.
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Yeah, we get it. You're tough as a two dollar steak.
I took the course back in the '70s while recovering from surgery at the VA hospital. It's pretty effective, depending on who is running the show. I stayed dry for almost 20 years and even today, I drink only moderately and feel no need to do more. But that's another story and not really relevant too the topic.
Hallucinogens such as LSD can certainly get you in touch with all sorts of gods, demons, hobgoblins, ex-wives, and 'most any other kind of evil extant. I tried it once, and that was enough. It's some wicked stuff.
I am reminded that ergot of rye, a bane of the Middle Ages and the possible cause of the Salem Witch Trials, is pretty much the same thing.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Zebra
Skeptic Friend
USA
354 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2009 : 09:49:46 [Permalink]
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Entheogens. Very interesting stuff.
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I think, you know, freedom means freedom for everyone* -Dick Cheney
*some restrictions may apply |
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Science Pricktion
New Member
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2009 : 20:11:28 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
Originally posted by Science Pricktion
Originally posted by marfknox
I've always thought the 12-step method was a good method for people with low self esteem. They have so little confidence in themselves and their own will that they need to convince themselves that something outside of themselves is actually allowing them to choose healthier behavior. It's kind of neat psychology - convincing one's self that one isn't doing any actual work but still getting results.
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You ever done a 12 step program? Are you an alcoholic or an addict? I am and the 12 step program didn't do anything for me. I got to step two and decided that its bullshit. You either quit because you want to or you don't quit. Screw AA. Screw NA. Kick the covers for a while and pull yourself up.
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Yeah, we get it. You're tough as a two dollar steak.
I took the course back in the '70s while recovering from surgery at the VA hospital. It's pretty effective, depending on who is running the show. I stayed dry for almost 20 years and even today, I drink only moderately and feel no need to do more. But that's another story and not really relevant too the topic.
Hallucinogens such as LSD can certainly get you in touch with all sorts of gods, demons, hobgoblins, ex-wives, and 'most any other kind of evil extant. I tried it once, and that was enough. It's some wicked stuff.
I am reminded that ergot of rye, a bane of the Middle Ages and the possible cause of the Salem Witch Trials, is pretty much the same thing.
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Ergot is exactly where LSD came from. Wicked stuff? Not really. Its the dosage that can be wicked and really flip your wig. Now, the Ergot of Rye caused mainly convulsions and did not seem to have the hallucinogenic qualities that LSD can contribute. |
Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try |
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Did LSD, not "god" cure AA founder of alcoholism?
