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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
 Posted - 06/23/2009 : 05:17:44 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by astropin |
So do I. My main interest is the first cause.
| We DO NOT exist "in that creation" |
I disagree. And I give you the creation with us in it as evidence.
| The Universe was not created. |
I disagree. And I give you the universe as evidence.
| The Earth was not created |
I disagree. And I give the earth as evidence.
| and "we" were not created. |
I disagree. And I give you us as evidence.
"Created" implies an intelligence behind it. You need a creator.
There is no creator....therefore there was no creation. |
Yet man, in all his glory and intelligence, cannot bring into existence that which did not exist before and then give life to that which did not exist before as well. So even though he can not even come close to figuring out how it was all created, he ignorantly insists that no intelligence was involved in the creation, even though he freely admits that he has no idea how it was created. How silly.
| The Big Bang was an "occurrence". Our Universe is the result. |
And the first cause for the BB was?
| Nothing "created" the Big Bang. |
And here is where our disagreement begins. From nothing comes nothing.
| How did the Big Bang occur? We don't know. |
Then how do you know nothing created or caused the big bang to occur? You don't! That is just your hope based on your preconceived notions and beliefs. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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| Edited by - Bill scott on 06/23/2009 06:05:06 |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2009 : 05:20:18 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by Dave W. |
| We do? According to current cosmological theory, we can't possibly agree with that conclusion. |
Well one day after many revisions the current cosmological theory will.
| Name another form of creationism which might suggest that Jesus rode a dinosaur. |
Another? I can't even name one. I remember he rode a donkey one time.
| I (for another example) am neither, but I tend to agree with the scientists (and ignore the naturalists). |
Which scientists?
| Yet the rest of your words speak much more loudly than your denial. |
Your reading much more into this than there really is. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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| Edited by - Bill scott on 06/23/2009 05:55:56 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2009 : 07:24:15 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
Well one day after many revisions the current cosmological theory will. |
I suppose we'll have to wait and see. How much time will your prognostication take to be realized?| Another? I can't even name one. |
Then you haven't been keeping up with American Fundamentalist creationism (as in Ken Ham's Creation Museum), which is what the shirt is lampooning.| I remember he rode a donkey one time. |
You remember that? So you're coming up on your 2,000th birthday, then?The ones that avoid philosophizing.| Your reading much more into this than there really is. |
I don't see how, since your claims here have been obvious and succinct in their redefinitions. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2009 : 08:08:17 [Permalink]
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Actually; rodeo Jesus rode both an ass and a foal when entering Jerusalem.
Apparently, somebody misunderstood the prophecy when making up this particular passage.
Also, BS, your whole "argument" is nothing than an argument from ignorance. |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2009 : 08:16:12 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Simon
Actually; rodeo Jesus rode both an ass and a foal when entering Jerusalem.
Apparently, somebody misunderstood the prophecy when making up this particular passage. |
Has nothing to do with the creation and it's first cause.
| Also, BS, your whole "argument" is nothing than an argument from ignorance. |
While yours is based on nothing. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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| Edited by - Bill scott on 06/23/2009 08:19:53 |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2009 : 09:00:11 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
Originally posted by Simon
Actually; rodeo Jesus rode both an ass and a foal when entering Jerusalem.
Apparently, somebody misunderstood the prophecy when making up this particular passage. |
Has nothing to do with the creation and it's first cause. |
You were the one mentioning the donkey riding...
| Also, BS, your whole "argument" is nothing than an argument from ignorance. |
While yours is based on nothing.
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What argument?
That creationism is contradicted by evidences?
Well; quite a lot of evidences for that were on the links I posted earlier. The ones you didn't open for fear, presumably, that it would damage your wilful ignorance.
Your one-liners are cute (in a retarded puppy way) but I'd rather you actually gave meaningful responses instead. Until then, you are nothing but an internet troll. |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2009 : 09:33:06 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Simon
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| You were the one mentioning the donkey riding.. |
In reply to the dino riding.
Right, what argument?
| That creationism is contradicted by evidences? |
Who's version of creationism are you talking about?
| Well; quite a lot of evidences for that were on the links I posted earlier. |
I don't have time to chase every link thrown my way. If you want to discuss then type away I'll read it and then discuss it.
| The ones you didn't open for fear, presumably, that it would damage your wilful ignorance. |
That is funny.
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"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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| Edited by - Bill scott on 06/23/2009 09:42:40 |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2009 : 10:15:03 [Permalink]
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What is it to discuss?
You are playing stupid semantic games ("no my definition of Creationism is different from anyone else's. No I am not going to specify it, that'd be too easy, watch me play debating-pong instead!").
Apparently, you like the attention and apparently can't get it through actually saying something worthwhile. Whatever, I am going to google for pictures of boobies, that'd be the same waste of time than trying to converse with you, but at least it will only raise my blood pressure in a pleasant way. |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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astropin
SFN Regular
USA
970 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2009 : 10:37:55 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
And the first cause for the BB was? |
I have no idea....and neither does anyone else. So why should I assign it to some intelligence?
And here is where our disagreement begins. From nothing comes nothing. |
Who said the big bang came from nothing? I certainly didn't. I said nothing "Created" the big bang. Something did "Cause" the big bang....what I have no idea, but I see NO reason to assign it to some intelligence.
Then how do you know nothing created or caused the big bang to occur? You don't! That is just your hope based on your preconceived notions and beliefs.
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Something did cause it, what? I have no idea. But I have NO evidence that there was any intelligence behind it.....NONE. |
I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.
You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.
Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.
Infinitus est numerus stultorum |
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astropin
SFN Regular
USA
970 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2009 : 10:40:01 [Permalink]
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| Oh! The shirt came in yesterday. I should get a picture. It makes me laugh. |
I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.
You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.
Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.
Infinitus est numerus stultorum |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 06/23/2009 : 13:36:12 [Permalink]
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Enough already! Argument from Universal Causation -- spare me.  This clunker has and continues to be spewed to support the existence of some god(s) or other since very ancient times. In reality, it is merely a cloak to hide "I don't know" and make the speaker look smart in the process. Yeesh!
Bill, I got to hand it to you, brother. You have the marvelous ability of turning the mundane purchase of a tee shirt into a bullshit, philosophical discussion of that same "I don't know." Something we all do know, however, is that The Naz never saw a dinosaur and certainly never rode one.
Various YECs claim, with no factual foundation whatsoever, that these ancient reptiles existed beside our species in such exotic places as the Garden of Eden, which also has no factual foundation beyond the imaginations of a ragged scattering of Bronze Age, Middle Eastern tribesmen. Those YECs deserve all of the ridicule they receive for trying to make their asinine myth paramount. Thus, the tee shirt among other items of mild hilarity.
Odd thought: Bill Dempski is forging his whole career doing apologetics for this nonsense while claiming that there's no religion involved. Meanwhile, science trudges along investigating each tiny clue that leads a little farther back toward the dawn of time.
Personal opinion: We'll never know and indeed, it might not even be possible to know.
Afterthought: A foal is an equine of less than a year old and trying to ride one would likely kill it. Whoever put that in the text didn't know much about livestock; unusual for the times, one would think. Unless, of course, it was put in at a later edit by some professional churchy who didn't get out much.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2009 : 23:40:50 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
Afterthought: A foal is an equine of less than a year old and trying to ride one would likely kill it. Whoever put that in the text didn't know much about livestock; unusual for the times, one would think. Unless, of course, it was put in at a later edit by some professional churchy who didn't get out much.
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No no no no no...
It was a miracle that Jesus locally reduced gravity enough that riding the foal was not harmful to it.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2009 : 23:51:14 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
| Originally posted by astropin |
So do I. My main interest is the first cause.
| We DO NOT exist "in that creation" |
I disagree. And I give you the creation with us in it as evidence. |
Assigning the description "creation" to the universe without a logical argument, preferrably backed up with evidence, is really humourus. This discussion does indeed belong in this folder.
| The Universe was not created. |
I disagree. And I give you the universe as evidence. |
Circular reasoning, enough to make your head spin. Or, are you the spin-doctor?
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 06/24/2009 : 02:00:14 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Originally posted by filthy
Afterthought: A foal is an equine of less than a year old and trying to ride one would likely kill it. Whoever put that in the text didn't know much about livestock; unusual for the times, one would think. Unless, of course, it was put in at a later edit by some professional churchy who didn't get out much.
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No no no no no...
It was a miracle that Jesus locally reduced gravity enough that riding the foal was not harmful to it.
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I stand enlightened.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Great Shirt
