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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
 Posted - 06/26/2009 : 18:22:08 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Simon
I was not aware of this carving. It's possible, but I think to remember the trail of the ark disappearing earlier than that... about the time of the FIRST destruction of the temple...
As for the implication, yes, that would certainly put a few orthodox's panties in a twist... but I don't think that the actual Israelies authorities would follow through with the crazy.
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Yes, according to Wiki, it did disappear during a much earlier destruction of Jerusalem's Temple. But I seem to recall, without yet being able to find it, a photo of a "victory column" in Rome depicting a triumphal march with soldiers carrying an Ark. (Probably a classical era copy made for the Levite priests.) The depicted march wound around the column in a spiral.
Since this is only an unverified memory, my recollection should be taken with a grain of salt, if and until I dig up a photo.
Edit: This, from a woo-woo site, seems to be a detail photo of what I saw elsewhere:
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 06/26/2009 18:41:18 |
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tw101356
Skeptic Friend
USA
333 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2009 : 18:36:51 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
Originally posted by Simon
I was not aware of this carving. It's possible, but I think to remember the trail of the ark disappearing earlier than that... about the time of the FIRST destruction of the temple...
As for the implication, yes, that would certainly put a few orthodox's panties in a twist... but I don't think that the actual Israelies authorities would follow through with the crazy.
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Yes, according to Wiki, it did disappear during a much earlier destruction of Jerusalem's Temple. But I seem to recall, without yet being able to find it, a photo of a "victory column" in Rome depicting a triumphal march with soldiers carrying an Ark. (Probably a classical era copy made for the Levite priests.) The depicted march wound around the column in a spiral.
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You're probably thinking about the Arch of Titus, but that's only a menorah, not the ark. (Not the best photo, but you can see the menorah on the inside of the archway.) Trajan's Column is the one with the spiral relief commemorating his two campaigns against the Dacians (modern Romania, more or less), but is, alas, devoid of Ark-itude as well. |
- TW
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| Edited by - tw101356 on 06/26/2009 18:37:20 |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2009 : 18:44:32 [Permalink]
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Well, my memory cannot stand as a citation for anything. Yes, you are right, I'd mentally conflated an arch and a column. But doesn't that look like an "Ark" under the menorah?
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2009 : 18:58:37 [Permalink]
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It must also be said that there have been several arks. It was a practice of the Semitic peoples as a whole, not just the Israelites.
So, it is always possible for another ark to be represented somewhere... |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2009 : 19:06:26 [Permalink]
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Here's another photo, from Wiki:
Yes, I freely admit that could be pretty much anything that they're carrying on poles there, stack of bagels, assorted knickknacks, or an Ark. Definitely a menorah.
But, to me, it stands to reason that at the time of the Roman sack and destruction of the Temple, the Levites -- if only for their own legitimacy's sake -- possessed something they claimed to be the true Ark. If so, it was either destroyed outright, hidden away by the priests, or looted by the Romans. My guess is that the Romans got that Ark copy, displayed it in a triumph in Rome, then destroyed it.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 06/26/2009 19:09:57 |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2009 : 19:13:20 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Simon
It must also be said that there have been several arks. It was a practice of the Semitic peoples as a whole, not just the Israelites.
So, it is always possible for another ark to be represented somewhere...
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I did not know that. Cool.
This is a fun subject, even if it is about an original object that is most likely dust by now, and a lot of later copies.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2009 : 19:46:23 [Permalink]
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The Levite had several hundred years of tradition behind them. They had the money of the temple and we know that they controlled part of the administration, at least the tax department: there is a passage in the Bible when the Israelite kings want to conduct a census without passing by the temple, whose job it traditionally was. God intervene by punishing the Israelite until the king change his mind. It might seems at first like God is micromanaging, but in reality, census and taxes were often linked in the ancient world. So, it's really a matter of the king trying to by-pass the priests (probably because it gave them power and money) and them interpreting some natural disaster to put political pressure on him.
I always liked this story... |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2009 : 20:10:56 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by knightmare
Originally posted by pleco
What if they find that it does date from the biblical time period and you can touch/have sex in it and not die??? Where is your god now?
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It would become like The Shroud of Turin; It's not the genuine ark described in the bible, but a whole lot of people will still believe that it's the real thing.
Laters
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And the 37 "true spears that pierced Jesus' side" and the hundreds of pieces of the "true cross".
All it takes is a church with diminshing adherents in the middle ages to the burning times and all of a sudden it's raining freakin relics.
And then there's the idgits that block traffic on I-57 because some illegal alien saw the Virgin Mary in a salt stain. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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knightmare
New Member
USA
42 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2009 : 13:45:01 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Simon
Originally posted by knightmare
Originally posted by Simon
It's new and has not been presented to people as the real deal (yet) like the shroud has been... for centuries. So, unless it happens to be the real deal or at least from the same period and such, people won't have much problem to discard it.
It will still be worshipped in Ethiopia, of course, but who cares about them?
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The shroud has been shown to be from the wrong time period, yet people still believe it's what Jesus was buried in. I'd like to think that you're right and this will go away when it doesn't destroy everything like in "Raiders of the Lost Ark", but I also see how people cling to something that can't possibly be real.
Then again, as with the shroud, it doesn't matter to me what someone believes. Just as long as they don't expect me to believe as well.
Laters
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Well; my point about the shroud was not so much about the actual age of the objects but the fact that it has been around since the middle-age and people have grown to accept it. By the time evidences came in; it was very thoroughly ingrained into culture.
The "ark" doesn't have such inertia and I am not expecting people to accept it against the evidences.
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I see what your saying. Sometimes it takes me a while, but I'll (eventually) catch on. Thanks for clearing that up for me.
Laters |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2009 : 19:51:57 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by knightmare
I see what your saying. Sometimes it takes me a while, but I'll (eventually) catch on. Thanks for clearing that up for me.
Laters |
No problem, my initial post might not have been very clear. |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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Ark of the Covenant discovered!
