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Zebra
Skeptic Friend
USA
354 Posts |
 Posted - 08/19/2009 : 21:02:30 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Paulos23
I just don't see the average American trying to take care of themselves to help keep health care costs down...
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....much less to maintain their own health as best they can. That said, I admit to a sweet tooth, & eating on the run, and not getting nearly as much exercise as I should. Even though my insurance company keeps trying to get me to participate in their "healthy lifestyles" program, for a kickback.
Back to the OP: Intriguing [to me] that McCain's acknowledged birth outside of the United States (in Panama, outside the Panama Canal Zone) didn't garner as much interest before the election as these wanna-be-rumors about Obama recently - yet would have posed a real question as to McCain's eligibility for president.
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I think, you know, freedom means freedom for everyone* -Dick Cheney
*some restrictions may apply |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2009 : 03:30:42 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Zebra
. . .
Back to the OP: Intriguing [to me] that McCain's acknowledged birth outside of the United States (in Panama, outside the Panama Canal Zone) didn't garner as much interest before the election as these wanna-be-rumors about Obama recently - yet would have posed a real question as to McCain's eligibility for president. |
I recall that in the 1964 campaign, "Mister Conservative" Barry Goldwater's legitimacy as a Presidential candidate was also challenged in a similar manner, based upon his having been born in Arizona Territory. At the time, I thought that, as I do the more recent charges against McCain and Obama, was a stretch. Personally, I would not have considered McCain disqualified. But in Obama's case, it's clear he was born in one of the United States.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 08/20/2009 : 04:13:59 [Permalink]
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"They, in their hour of desperation, will ever grasp at that futile straw, that sad stalk which will fracture the spine of their already foundered camel." ~~ Anon
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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| Edited by - filthy on 08/20/2009 04:16:04 |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2009 : 13:45:02 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Zebra
Originally posted by Paulos23
I just don't see the average American trying to take care of themselves to help keep health care costs down...
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....much less to maintain their own health as best they can. That said, I admit to a sweet tooth, & eating on the run, and not getting nearly as much exercise as I should. Even though my insurance company keeps trying to get me to participate in their "healthy lifestyles" program, for a kickback.
Back to the OP: Intriguing [to me] that McCain's acknowledged birth outside of the United States (in Panama, outside the Panama Canal Zone) didn't garner as much interest before the election as these wanna-be-rumors about Obama recently - yet would have posed a real question as to McCain's eligibility for president. |
Well; duh. Have you seen McCain? Is a fine, not overly melanized citizen. And he doesn't have one of them funny muslim name either... |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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Grayven
New Member
19 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2009 : 20:41:30 [Permalink]
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| We have finite resources. We will have to decide, in some cases, who lives and who dies. There will be death panels. Someone will be in charge of them. I'm hoping its the dying, not the gov or the corps. But I doubt it. End of life care needs some debate, a debate we're not capable of having. We really need some thought about this, for any sort of health care change to be meaningful, and I haven't seen a damn thing from either side. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2009 : 20:58:51 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Grayven
We have finite resources. We will have to decide, in some cases, who lives and who dies. There will be death panels. Someone will be in charge of them. |
Right now, it's the insurance companies who are in charge of them. Don't you get it? Insurance companies already decide who will get what care. It's the primary way they profit: cutting costs by denying treatment. "There will be death panels" is just mindless rhetoric that denies what's already happening.| I'm hoping its the dying, not the gov or the corps. But I doubt it. |
That's what end-of-life directives are all about.| End of life care needs some debate... |
It does?! You really think we should debate what happens to someone, what care they will be given? I think it should be left up to the patient (primarily) and his/her care-givers. The law should be changed so that once a physician submits a "this person is entering end-of-life care" notice to an insurance company (be it public or private), the insurer can't say "no" to any medical decision until after the patient dies, at which point they can review the case and if they think the doctor fudged things, they can file charges for insurance fraud with the state (not file a civil malpractice lawsuit). That would ramp up the consequences for both doctors and insurers if either one gets greedy.| ...a debate we're not capable of having. |
Not with empty rhetoric coming from one side, no.| We really need some thought about this, for any sort of health care change to be meaningful, and I haven't seen a damn thing from either side. |
End-of-life care isn't even the most important aspect of the reform bills being worked on right now. Why do you think that if it's not properly debated, reform will be meaningless? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2009 : 23:04:53 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Grayven
We have finite resources. We will have to decide, in some cases, who lives and who dies. There will be death panels. Someone will be in charge of them. I'm hoping its the dying, not the gov or the corps. But I doubt it. End of life care needs some debate, a debate we're not capable of having. We really need some thought about this, for any sort of health care change to be meaningful, and I haven't seen a damn thing from either side.
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An "Advance care directive" or "living will" is what this is about. That's all there is behind this new GOP smokescreen.
I signed a living will 5 years ago. It was hardly controversial then, and should not suddenly be now. This "death panel" "controversy" is merely an bogus invention to delay or derail plans to finally bring good care to all Americans. Otherwise, it has no relationship to reality.
People, we should all be doing this: Remember the politicians, pundits, and economic forces that are opposing Obama's health care reforms.
I predict that (when and if it is passed), a few years later the program will be so popular that hardly anyone will want to remind the public that they opposed it. That's what happened with Medicare.
Let's never forget who it was that tried to let the insurance companies keep running their real death panels.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Great topic for skeptics missed!
