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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2009 : 08:22:24 [Permalink]
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Oh for crying out loud Bill. You know as well as I do that plenty of Republicans said that Fannie and Freddie were doing fine as well. I can mine those quotes for you if you like. Is John McCain a liar because he said that the "the fundamentals of our economy are strong". That was before the shit hit the fan at Fannie and Freddie. That was before he ran off to Washington to fix the economy by throwing trillions of dollars at the same banks that are still not lending and resisting regulation. Should we also never trust a thing he says again? Or any of the other Republicans who were on board for that plan? Mistakes were made. Big ones.
But they were predicting the future and they were wrong. Go ahead Bill. Find a provision in the health care bill that allows for "death panels" or any of the other garbage that is being promoted by the conservative pundits and many congressional Republicans.
Those claims of "Nazi death panels" in the bill aren't mistakes. Those claims are flat out lies. Are you here to defend that crap? Or are you only to knock Barney Frank who happened to be as wrong as most of congress, and the Republican president, at the time of the collapse?
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
 Posted - 08/20/2009 : 09:21:58 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
What makes him trustworthy now... |
What does it matter if Barney Frank is trustworthy when the point is that Republicans are comparing a few proposed health-care policies to Hitler's Final Solution, Bill?
Your attempt to distract away from the actual issues was predictable, Bill. As soon as I heard the name "Barney Frank" yesterday, I thought to myself, "oh, Bill scott is going to get his knickers in a twist over this." I was right.
The original idea was simply to point and laugh at the brainless idiot, but somehow you, Bill, think that the OP is about using Barney Frank to "bolster" a "rant." |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2009 : 10:20:14 [Permalink]
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| Oh for crying out loud Bill. You know as well as I do that plenty of Republicans said that Fannie and Freddie were doing fine as well. |
What a bunch of fools, or liars, take your pick.
| I can mine those quotes for you if you like. |
Whatever floats your boat.
| Is John McCain a liar because he said that the "the fundamentals of our economy are strong". That was before the shit hit the fan at Fannie and Freddie. |
Knowing what was going over at Freddie and Fannie he is either a liar or a buffoon, take your pick.
| That was before he ran off to Washington to fix the economy by throwing trillions of dollars at the same banks that are still not lending and resisting regulation. |
How many people were on board with this numskull idea?
| Should we also never trust a thing he says again? |
I wouldn't, but then I never did in the first place.
| Or any of the other Republicans who were on board for that plan? |
Forget dems or pubs. I wouldn't trust them for being politicians, period.
| Mistakes were made. Big ones. |
You think?!?!?!?!? And now we are supposed to blindly trust these fools to "reform" health care just a few months after this last debacle!!!! Oh but this time Barney is right. How do we know this? Because the ignored said so.
| But they were predicting the future and they were wrong. |
Let's see, they force lending institutions to loan money to people who can't ever pay the money back and then are shocked in a few years when the foreclosed rates jump as they did. There is no predicting any future here. If you didn't see the handwriting on the wall, knowing what was going on at freddie and frannie, then you are a incompetent moron who does not deserve to be trusted on such important matters ever again.
| Or are you only to knock Barney Frank who happened to be as wrong as most of congress, and the Republican president, at the time of the collapse? |
I am here to find one reason Barney should be given any credit or trust on this issue when he so completely misread Freddie and Fannie to the point of incompetence. Let's see, you loan money to people who can't pay it back, it don't take a rocket scientist to figure out you will implode eventually. Or maybe he knew Freddie and Fannie couldn't stand on there on two feet and he just lied about it. Either way it don't look good for his rants on health care considering he was so right (wrong) last time. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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| Edited by - Bill scott on 08/20/2009 10:22:43 |
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Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2009 : 10:27:07 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by  Bill scott
[quote]....Is that the same Barney Frank who said:"...Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac—are not facing any kind of financial crisis,"...just before Freddie and Fannie blew up?...What makes him trustworthy now when he didn't have a clue... |
Ah - I see, moving the goalposts again eh? Barney Frank spoke once about Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac in a different context and that makes a lunatic woman's accusations today comparing Obama and Frank to Nazis correct? I think not.
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Diversity, independence, innovation and imagination are progressive concepts ultimately alien to the conservative mind.
"TAX AND SPEND" IS GOOD! (TAX: Wealthy corporations who won't go poor even after taxes. SPEND: On public works programs, education, the environment, improvements.) |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 08/20/2009 : 10:42:21 [Permalink]
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Rusn Limbaugh, the titular head and spiritual inspiration of the Republican Party, made this remark concerning Frank's question to the woman with the Nazi sign and no brains:
Rush Limbaugh has made what appears to be a joke mocking Barney Frank's sexuality in response to Frank's tough stance with a town hall protester Tuesday night.
Tuesday, Frank asked a protester who had compared President Obama to Hitler, "On what planet do you spend most of your time?"
On his show Wednesday (via Mediaite), Limbaugh responded, mocking Frank and asking, "Isn't it an established fact that Barney Frank himself spends most of his time living around Uranus?"
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How droll!
I've also read that these protests are not about health care at all, but are attacks on Obama. I am inclined to think that is correct. So Bill, I must ask; are you concerned about the health care bill, the tone of the protests, or just mounting an attack on a politician you don't happen to like using what is, for all practical purposes, ancient history?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2009 : 10:46:48 [Permalink]
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Me:
Those claims of "Nazi death panels" in the bill aren't mistakes. Those claims are flat out lies. Are you here to defend that crap? |
Me:
Go ahead Bill. Find a provision in the health care bill that allows for "death panels" or any of the other garbage that is being promoted by the conservative pundits and many congressional Republicans. |
Gosh Bill. In you're response, which covered almost everything I wrote, you missed the above. You have attacked the messenger, but remain silent on what Frank was responding to. So let me ask you straight out. Do you think the bill that congress is working on has anything even remotely close to Nazi death panels? Or are those claims flat out lies?
I'll give you a clue. The idea to include the provisions that have been so grossly distorted by Republicans and conservative pundits came from the Republican side of the isle.
Forget about Frank. Tell me what you think Bill.
Edited. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2009 : 10:48:05 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
And now we are supposed to blindly trust these fools to "reform" health care just a few months after this last debacle!!!! Oh but this time Barney is right. How do we know this? Because the ignored said so. |
What a boatload of garbage. Where does Ig say or hint that the healthcare reforms are good because Barney says so? Nowhere.| Let's see, they force lending institutions to loan money to people who can't ever pay the money back... |
Got any evidence to support that assertion? Of course not, because it didn't happen.| I am here to find one reason Barney should be given any credit or trust on this issue... |
Who is asking you to trust Barney Frank about anything?| Either way it don't look good for his rants on health care... |
Whose rants about healthcare? Is anyone's rant about healthcare a focus of this thread? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2009 : 11:06:36 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by Bill scott
And now we are supposed to blindly trust these fools to "reform" health care just a few months after this last debacle!!!! Oh but this time Barney is right. How do we know this? Because the ignored said so. |
What a boatload of garbage. Where does Ig say or hint that the healthcare reforms are good because Barney says so? Nowhere.| Let's see, they force lending institutions to loan money to people who can't ever pay the money back... |
Got any evidence to support that assertion? Of course not, because it didn't happen.| I am here to find one reason Barney should be given any credit or trust on this issue... |
Who is asking you to trust Barney Frank about anything?| Either way it don't look good for his rants on health care... |
Whose rants about healthcare? Is anyone's rant about healthcare a focus of this thread?
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I would rant about health care, but am in no position to do so. I am in a purely socialist system that has been taking care of me and John McCain, and many others for decades.
But I'd like to see everyone get something similar, even conservatives (hell, especially conservatives. Mental health is a priority with that bunch). I'd like to see at least some form of health care made a civil right, available to all regardless of their social status. I think it is the right thing to do.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 08/20/2009 : 11:57:55 [Permalink]
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Here is the bottom line; why this whole thing has turned into such a complete cluster-fuck:
A top Obama ally predicted Wednesday in an interview with ABC News that Democrats will lose their congressional majority in next year's midterm elections if they fail to put a health-care reform bill on President Obama's desk.
"I think we're talking losing control of Congress," said Andy Stern, the president of the Service Employees International Union. "[The failure of health-care reform] would totally empower Republicans to kill all change."
"It's hard to imagine the Democrats convincing the public that Republicans are to blame for health-care reform going down when the Democrats have such large majorities," he added. "After last year's promise of change, voters will start feeling buyer's remorse."
Stern, who was invited to sit with the Obama family during the president's inaugural parade, is watched closely on health-care reform not only because of the labor muscle he wields as the head of the 2-million member SEIU but also because of the effort he has made to work with business groups: in 2007, he started "Divided We Fail," a coalition which joined SEIU and AARP with the Business Roundtable and National Federation of Independent Business to promote the general principle of universal health care coverage.
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The Republicans want Congress back and will commit any deceit toward that end.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2009 : 12:05:45 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
Originally posted by the_ignored
You want some really paranoid shit about Obama and Healthcare? Check that out. It's "Mr. Mann's" blog. You know, one of the mods from RR?
Check out his "twitter" sidebar:
Twitter Updates
I got a great comment, "How dare I compare Obama to Hitler!" I published it. And responded. Its good to slap a lib around 8 days ago |
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He's a piece of work, isn't he? I note that he posted precious little of the text in the bill and filled in with comments. You'd have to look it up to get it. It's an old trick and makes him a liar by definition -- can you say: "QUOTE MINING?"
If the snivelling, little pustule likes to slap liberals around so well, let him come in here and learn what a verbal slap-around really is. 
I always get a chuckle when Godwin's Law is confirmed. It shows that the person has nothing to respond with; no argument at all and therefore is proven a fool from the beginning of the discussion.
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Oddly enough, one of the Rapturites did have a closer look at the bill, and here's his take of it.
You can note the responses to his critique, including from "Mr. Mann", the guy who posted the OP for that thread, which is the same thing he posted in his blog entry.
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2009 : 12:12:20 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by DaveW
The original idea was simply to point and laugh at the brainless idiot, but somehow you, Bill, think that the OP is about using Barney Frank to "bolster" a "rant." |
Exactly. I guess that I have to be more careful in how I word things just in case Bill is (mis)-reading the posts!
I'm not diggin too much into the american health care debate, since I'm Canadian and it has no effect on me whatsoever. It may be bad, or it may be just good enough to muddle through, or it may be impossible to implement because of the costs.
I'm just pointing out the religious right/repug's insane knee-jerk reaction to anything that Obama does, and their getting all paranoid about it. If the bill is to be damned, let it be damned on its own actual failings, instead of the misquotes, cherry-picking and made-up paranoid bullshit that is being tossed out there.
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
| Edited by - the_ignored on 08/20/2009 12:13:53 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 08/20/2009 : 12:42:55 [Permalink]
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Well done, Jereboam! Would that there were more like you on those and other boards, not excluding these at SFN!
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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| Edited by - filthy on 08/20/2009 12:43:48 |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2009 : 20:41:07 [Permalink]
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A pharyngula commentator made note of how Faux News is dealing with that incident.
And of course Faux News keeps running the clip - WITHOUT the part with the woman calling Obama a Nazi and saying the policy is a Nazi policy.
They just run Barney Frank's reaction and talk about how horrible and rude he was without mentioning what he was responding to. |
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2009 : 21:44:25 [Permalink]
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HAHAHA Good one Billy!
All we have to do is mention a couple of names here and in your dumb ass pops to vomit your character assassination screed, regardless of topic.
Al Gore.
Barney Frank.
There, I said their names! DUCK AND COVER! BILLY IS ABOUT TO FLING FECES!
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Maverick
Skeptic Friend
Sweden
385 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2009 : 23:14:41 [Permalink]
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| Saw it on PZ's blog last night. That was beautiful. Finally someone who actually punches these idiots verbally. This is what Obama should do, of course then people would complain that he's out of control and unable to debate in a civilised fashion, etc. I do wonder why more healthcare for those who can't otherwise afford it reminds these idiots of Nazism, while invading countries for no good reason and torturing prisoners of war does not. |
"Life is but a momentary glimpse of the wonder of this astonishing universe, and it is sad to see so many dreaming it away on spiritual fantasy." -- Carl Sagan |
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Barney Frank smacks down anti-health care idiot
