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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
 Posted - 08/28/2009 : 13:33:34 [Permalink]
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| opps |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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| Edited by - Bill scott on 08/28/2009 13:35:15 |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2009 : 13:53:57 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by the_ignored
If you think Bill had the hate on for Kennedy, get a load of this guy.
What gets me is how conservatives in general just hated Kennedy because of that Chappaquidick affair, yet they (with the apparent exception of Bill?) have no problems with the war that Bush started with all the lives that took, and the torture of the people in Guantanamo.
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Well, you know...he was the most powerful liberal in Washington for a very long time. To these RR people, that's evil incarnate. Chappaquidick is just an excuse to belittle the man. And as Bill has shown, they will say anything. Even if it's just a derogatory comment about his weight. They really hated him because he was a liberal who got things done.
That's what's really at the bottom of all of this. Take Bill again. He never ever shows up here to complain a conservative who ran afoul of the law. (Hell, Cheney probably committed treason. But not a peep out of Bill about it.) That's because conservatives brown nose guys like Bill. They throw him a bones like being "pro life", and he has become their bitch.
He's out doing their dirty work while they are arranging for abortions (in secret of course) for their knocked up daughters.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 08/28/2009 : 14:04:35 [Permalink]
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I just found this illustration and like it a lot.
It pretty well sums up much of his service to the country.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2009 : 14:22:01 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
The whole forum then seemed to go ape$hit about me implying that Kennedy was a coward and a jerk. |
You didn't imply it, you said it. Let me quote you:| Me, I find him to be nothing but a coward and jerk who put his political career ahead of the life of his girlfriend. |
And I think it's really, really funny how you can easily smear Kopechne's entire family as having taken blood money to defend Mary Jo's killer but use the thinnest of veneers to try to hide the fact that you used the word "shit." Your morals are completely hosed up, Bill, since the former is very much more rude and offensive than the latter. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2009 : 15:17:55 [Permalink]
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Bill: | I was referring to all politicians in general here. |
And I repeat my previous response which you have yet to respond to directly: If you are going to piss all over politicians just for being politicians, you are basically promoting either anarchy or some other system of governance which you have yet to explain. So what's the deal, Bill? Do you consider our whole system of governance in this country bullshit, and if so, what do you propose as a better alternative? I'm not saying that our current system is perfect or even great, but since I can't think of a better one off hand, I'm going to celebrate the good things which are accomplished under our current system.
| I said that him having perfectly cohenrent conversations with many different people after the accident was for sure a sign of being delusional. I then typed *sigh* to show that what I was saying was satire. As if that was not obvious already. Ted made it back to the party just fine. Took his friends back to the crash sight just fine. Made it back to the hotel just fine. Had a coherent conversation with the hotel owner at 2:55am just fine. Had a coherent conversation with a fellow yahct racer at 7:30am. Was making calls on the phone to his friends asking for legal advice. This guy was anything but delusional. Calculating maybe, delusional he was not. I did say that he was delusional about the fact that his was all going to somehow go away. But his actions were far from delusional in the sense that he portayed himself walking around in some zombie state. Nope, ain't buying it. |
So in your assessment, it was rational for him to think he could get away with this? That his “gamble” was both worth it and had a decent chance of paying off? Now that I ain't buying.
| I have done both in my lifetime and brain work is cake compared to a hard day of physical labor. There is a reason I went to school. I have done both and I will take the brain labor any day of the week over manual labor. My job now I can work my ass off all day long and still come home and go for a 2 hour bike ride. You work 8-10 hours of physical labor every day and your going straight to the couch at 5PM |
Wow, that is totally the opposite of my personal experience! When I've done volunteer physical labor at the local food pantry I've come home feeling rejuvenated. And when I worked full time as a teacher doing “brain work” I gained 15 pounds in three months because I came home and was too tired to even cook a healthy meal. Instead I ate crap and plopped down in front of the television. My buddy Joe works in construction. He's one of the few people I know who has a blue collar opposed to a white collar job. In his late 40's he's healthy, trim, full of energy, and to de-stress he does things like bike for hours. Most of my office worker friends are overweight and complain about having to walk a few blocks.
But all of this is besides the point. Work is work, Bill. Mental work is difficult and requires discipline and incentives or people don't typically do it, same as physical work. Sure, some people like doing mental work, and some people like hiking and biking and running marathons. Both mental and physical work also produced results. The fruits of our labor can be helpful or harmful or have a neutral impact on society. And when we evaluate the whole of a person's career we evaluate it based on the fruits of their labor as well as how much time and energy they put into their work. The fruits of Kennedy's political labor was indisputably great.
| I just don |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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| Edited by - marfknox on 08/28/2009 15:18:24 |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2009 : 15:21:49 [Permalink]
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Billy said:
I never said that the house had the equipment to perform a water rescue. The diver who recovered the body said that Kennedy could have called the police and authority's from the house, who then in turn could have got the water rescue people out there in minutes. But this would have involved the police, a most unwanted buzz kill for sure.
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You didn't exactly say that, no, my bad. You said he could have summoned help within 30ish minutes though.
Makes no difference to my point. He could have summoned help capable of getting the girl out and maybe have some chance at saving her life.
If, as you claim, he was planning a cover up, was in posession of enough mental acuity to try to cover things up, then surely he would realize that even with police involved it would be a simple matter to cover up an affair! Especially if the girl was alive to corroborate his story.
He doesn't need to bribe or pressure anyone but her if she is alive.
But to cover up a death, now that is going to be several orders of magnitude more difficult.
So your assertion of an intent to cover up, for which you have provided no evidence at all, is absurb.
But keep on grasping at those straws, keep on feeling the hate, keep on believing the bullshit. We need more vocal retards from the convervatard portion of the GOP to scream, rant, and run naked in the streets covered in their own verbal feces. When enough of you do you'll reach a critical mass and implode, leaving the GOP out of power for a couple of decades. Maybe we can fix the fuckups of G.W. by then.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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| Edited by - Dude on 08/28/2009 15:42:49 |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2009 : 20:21:28 [Permalink]
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I have no problem with Bill for speaking ill of the dead Ted Kennedy per se. After all, I had great fun at Jerry Falwell's expense after he died. Bill certainly didn't like my spoof of Falwell, and I remain unapologetic for dumping on that vile and appallingly destructive monster.
No, any comparison of Kennedy to Falwell, either before or after their deaths, strikes me as comparing apples to rotten herrings. What a contrast there was between the two men!
Jerry Falwell was a self-appointed spokesman for God Almighty. He used his position to build a huge personal worldly empire of money, hate, ignorance, and lies. He was a thundering, power-hungry prophet of bigotry, fear, self-promotion and theocracy. His entire life was spent in an effort to convince people that it was himself alone who spoke for (if not guided) a vengeful God right out of the Old Testament.
Like Falwell, Kennedy was a human being, and had flaws. But the vast majority of his life was spent in democratically elected service for his constituents in Massachusetts -- for the poor and under-represented, for struggling working families, for veterans struggling to become again a useful part of society. He worked to help hold his family together through assassinations and tragedy. He strove to make his nation worthy of being considered the leading democracy in the world.
So go ahead with your post-mortem slanders, Bill. I will make no difference to Ted Kennedy. It won't bring back your loathsome Falwell and it certainly won't have any effect upon readers other than to demonstrate your complete divorce from reality.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2009 : 02:26:53 [Permalink]
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Speaking of Falwell, here's Kennedy at Liberty University discussing the seperation of church and state.
Edward M. Kennedy
Faith, Truth and Tolerance in America
delivered 3 October 1983, Liberty Baptist College (Liberty University), Lynchburg, VA
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From the speech, about the middle of it:
"I have come here to discuss my beliefs about faith and country, tolerance and truth in America. I know we begin with certain disagreements; I strongly suspect that at the end of the evening some of our disagreements will remain. But I also hope that tonight and in the months and years ahead, we will always respect the right of others to differ, that we will never lose sight of our own fallibility, that we will view ourselves with a sense of perspective and a sense of humor. After all, in the New Testament, even the Disciples had to be taught to look first to the beam in their own eyes, and only then to the mote in their neighbor's eyes.
I am mindful of that counsel. I am an American and a Catholic; I love my country and treasure my faith. But I do not assume that my conception of patriotism or policy is invariably correct, or that my convictions about religion should command any greater respect than any other faith in this pluralistic society. I believe there surely is such a thing as truth, but who among us can claim a monopoly on it?
There are those who do, and their own words testify to their intolerance. For example, because the Moral Majority has worked with members of different denominations, one fundamentalist group has denounced Dr. Falwell for hastening the ecumenical church and for "yoking together with Roman Catholics, Mormons, and others." I am relieved that Dr. Falwell does not regard that as a sin, and on this issue, he himself has become the target of narrow prejudice. When people agree on public policy, they ought to be able to work together, even while they worship in diverse ways. For truly we are all yoked together as Americans, and the yoke is the happy one of individual freedom and mutual respect.
But in saying that, we cannot and should not turn aside from a deeper and more pressing question -- which is whether and how religion should influence government. A generation ago, a presidential candidate had to prove his independence of undue religious influence in public life, and he had to do so partly at the insistence of evangelical Protestants. John Kennedy said at that time: “I believe in an America where there is no religious bloc voting of any kind.” Only twenty years later, another candidate was appealing to a[n] evangelical meeting as a religious bloc. Ronald Reagan said to 15 thousand evangelicals at the Roundtable in Dallas: “ I know that you can't endorse me. I want you to know I endorse you and what you are doing.”
To many Americans, that pledge was a sign and a symbol of a dangerous breakdown in the separation of church and state. Yet this principle, as vital as it is, is not a simplistic and rigid command. Separation of church and state cannot mean an absolute separation between moral principles and political power. The challenge today is to recall the origin of the principle, to define its purpose, and refine its application to the politics of the present.
The founders of our nation had long and bitter experience with the state, as both the agent and the adversary of particular religious views. In colonial Maryland, Catholics paid a double land tax, and in Pennsylvania they had to list their names on a public roll -- an ominous precursor of the first Nazi laws against the Jews. And Jews in turn faced discrimination in all of the thirteen original Colonies. Massachusetts exiled Roger Williams and his congregation for contending that civil government had no right to enforce the Ten Command |
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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| Edited by - filthy on 08/29/2009 02:28:04 |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2009 : 03:28:10 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by the_ignored |
| What gets me is how conservatives in general just hated Kennedy because of that Chappaquidick affair, yet they (with the apparent exception of Bill?) have no problems with the war that Bush started with all the lives that took, and the torture of the people in Guantanamo. |
If you doubt me then test me. Start a thread praising and pawning over the man/work of GWB. I will be glad to jump in with some harsh criticism of ol George. It would not be all that hard to find anything worth being critical of. Like I said I have given up on the mentality a long time ago that my guys are the good guys and the opposition is the bad people. When 80% of these people are examined from a non-bias viewpoint they come with major down falls. One has to be hardened just to make it to these positions in politics. It's a cut throat business where the weak seldom survive. By the time these people reach these positions they think they are above the people who put them there and above the law they are there to defend and work within. Many times they were privileged before becoming a major political figure so that only adds to their diva mentality. It leads them to believe that they are above being charged with crimes that you and I would be charged with. Was Kennedy the first and last politician to display this type of diva mentality? Hell no! But he was the topic of the thread. If you doubt that I will go after a pub with the same passion then post the thread praising GWB. One reason I don't attack pubs on this forum is that you guys do that just fine on your own. It's the lack of accountability you have for the dems that drives me crazy and makes it look like I fixate on them. I use to disdain the opposition, now I just disdain politicians.
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"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2009 : 03:33:15 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by Dave W. |
Originally posted by Bill scott
The whole forum then seemed to go ape$hit about me implying that Kennedy was a coward and a jerk. |
You didn't imply it, you said it. Let me quote you: |
Me, I find him to be nothing but a coward and jerk who put his political career ahead of the life of his girlfriend. |
And I stand by it. Anybody that wagers another persons life for their personal political gain is a coward and a jerk, IMO.
| And I think it's really, really funny how you can easily smear Kopechne's entire family as having taken blood money to defend Mary Jo's killer |
I never said they got blood money from Kennedy. I said that Kennedy gave the family money after the accident, which he did. You can take all the rest of the circumstantial evidence and come to your own concclusion.
| but use the thinnest of veneers to try to hide the fact that you used the word "shit." Your morals are completely hosed up, Bill, since the former is very much more rude and offensive than the latter. |
This is your imagination at work. I email back and forth with several friends who have filters on their work email so I am just in the habit of using the thinnest of veneers in my communications. To think that I am a more moral person for having typed ape$hit over apeshit is laughable.
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"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2009 : 03:39:37 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by HalfMooner |
| I have no problem with Bill for speaking ill of the dead Ted Kennedy per se. After all, I had great fun at Jerry Falwell's expense after he died. Bill certainly didn't like my spoof of Falwell, and I remain unapologetic for dumping on that vile and appallingly destructive monster. |
I agree HM. One can't get their panties all twisted because I spoke “irreverently” of TK when they do the same thing to the “opposition” all the time.
To honest I knew very little of JF. I just found your paintshop projects to be childish at best and retarted at worst.
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"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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| Edited by - Bill scott on 08/29/2009 03:46:56 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2009 : 03:46:30 [Permalink]
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| And I stand by it. Anybody that wagers another persons life for their personal political gain is a coward and a jerk, IMO. |
I agree entirely.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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| Edited by - filthy on 08/29/2009 03:55:50 |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2009 : 05:46:15 [Permalink]
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I did acknowledge your contempt for politicians in general Bill. Nice to see it confirmed.
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
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> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2009 : 06:52:35 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by the_ignored
I did acknowledge your contempt for politicians in general Bill. Nice to see it confirmed.
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Unfortunately, politicians and politics are a part of the price we pay for democracy. Sometimes we get a pretty good deal with the people we elect -- Kennedy, for example -- but too often we end up with self-serving scumbags interested only in furthering the fortunes of their party, and by extension, themselves, and the rest of the country be damned. So, in the long run, the scumbags slimming their way into office are our fault and ours alone.
Of course, there is a way out of it; a way that we won't have to make tough decisions as to who will lead us. All we have to do is let the church take over the state and all reason for thought will vanish like Bush at 9-11. They'll prise the pistol out of my cold, dead hand before that'll happen.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2009 : 07:19:37 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
And I stand by it. Anybody that wagers another persons life for their personal political gain is a coward and a jerk, IMO. |
No, "nothing more than a coward and a jerk," plainly stated. Why are you softening your previous position?| I never said they got blood money from Kennedy. I said that Kennedy gave the family money after the accident, which he did. You can take all the rest of the circumstantial evidence and come to your own concclusion. |
More back-pedaling. When I pointed out that Mary Jo's parents said nice things about Kennedy after her death, your response was, "They were given money," clearly indicating that you think that the family's opinion and integrity could be purchased for $90,000 and change.| To think that I am a more moral person for having typed ape$hit over apeshit is laughable. |
That's what I was saying. I think you're a very immoral person. But if the dollar-sign was just force-of-habit, no biggie. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Ted Kennedy has died
