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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
 Posted - 11/17/2009 : 00:08:16
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Happening Dec 21st 2009!
Coolest geek toy I've seen in a while. Yes, I ordered one. Hope it works as described!
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2009 : 03:00:50 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dude
Happening Dec 21st 2009!
Coolest geek toy I've seen in a while. Yes, I ordered one. Hope it works as described!
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Probably based on the same technology as this toy and this one aimed at kids. Seems to be the new big thing in toys this year. Not very many "practical" applications yet, because the headset doesn't seem to be sensitive enough to read anything but the largest of wave changes within the overall brain, but this technology definitely has the possibility to be much, much bigger. I can definitely see the potential for computer interface.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 11/17/2009 03:05:27 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2009 : 08:53:36 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by H. Humbert
Originally posted by Dude
Happening Dec 21st 2009!
Coolest geek toy I've seen in a while. Yes, I ordered one. Hope it works as described!
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Probably based on the same technology as this toy and this one aimed at kids. Seems to be the new big thing in toys this year. Not very many "practical" applications yet, because the headset doesn't seem to be sensitive enough to read anything but the largest of wave changes within the overall brain, but this technology definitely has the possibility to be much, much bigger. I can definitely see the potential for computer interface.
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Yeah, similar stuff. All very cool!
The Emotiv one claims you will be able to map out different macros (key combinations) to patterns it will recognize. So if you want to perform specific actions inside a particular piece of software running on your computer, like video games, you will be able to just think them and it will activate your pre-defined macro.
If it lives up to the hype even half way I'll be very impressed.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2009 : 13:34:06 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dude
...If it lives up to the hype even half way I'll be very impressed.
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All very well and good Dude but what about the monsters? You know, the Monsters from the Id! |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2009 : 14:18:47 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dude
If it lives up to the hype even half way I'll be very impressed. |
I'd be very curious to hear your impressions once you try it.
The first time I learned of the Mindflex game was from a post on Greg Laden's blog. In the demonstration video, the vendor claims that the sensor can detect a shift from Alpha waves to Beta waves within the user's brain, and it's this change which instructs the game's fans to blow the ball either up or down. Furthermore, the vendor claims a user can consciously control these wave shifts with practice. This is not an unbelievable claim, as Beta waves are produced during periods of "active concentration", while Alpha waves are produced when the visual cortex is at rest.
However, none of the people shown demonstrating the game are practiced and all seem to be attempting this for the first time. Yet still the vendor praises their "successful" attempts to manipulate the ball. So I question what we're really seeing being demonstrated. I'd be curious to learn how often a normal brain shifts between Alpha and Beta waves during the course of any given interval. If these sort of changes are common and occur frequently, then the ball would be expected to rise and fall with regular frequency regardless of the user's intent. Indeed, I suspect the vendor was merely anticipating these natural rhythms, instructing each user to "imagine" the ball rising into the air ahead of an expected Beta wave cycle and then encouraging the reverse once it's been achieved. I've yet to see a video where a person levitates the ball for a sustained period of time, leading me to question just how voluntary this activity actually is. I can also see how a user might be easily fooled into believing they are consciously manipulating the ball even if they weren't. So long as their conscious intentions roughly coincided with natural brain rhythms, it would certainly feel like successful mind control even if it's mostly the result of confirmation bias.
Still, I'm not ruling out the possibility that the product can work as advertised. A commenter named TolkeinCookie on the Greg Laden post wrote: | I know for a fact that when i play this game, i have made a connection with the ball, a connection so strong that i am able to make it move as i say. |
Another poster by the name of Aladin wrote in response: | I know I have the same feeling! It is like the ball HEARS me and I'm not even saying anthing out loud! Nedless to say I have one of these too, and I do not thing of it as a toy at all. It is more of a meditation thing. |
So what's really going on here? Like I said, Dude, I'm very interested to see a skeptic put this technology through its paces. Let us know what you learn.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2009 : 15:21:29 [Permalink]
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This device claims to be able to read EEG changes associated with specific thoughts, not just changes in alpha/beta waves.
It will also probably read impulses to facial muscles.
There was a DARPA project a few years ago that was working on a weapon sight with an integrated EEG, that would help the guy with the trigger to consciously notice things he/she might otherwise overlook.
There is a DARPA project underway right now to use sensitive high resolution EEG to try and read actual words as you think them. The goal is a fully silent and secure communication system, but they think they can get a 100 word vocabulary though this thing within the next 10 years. More than enough for spec ops troops, kinda like an invisible sign language. There is also some application there for hands-free control of weapons systems on fighter planes (Clint Eastwood FIREFOX style!). If it pans out, of course.
If this thing can do even two or three distinct macros I will be happy with it. If it works that well or better I can see a lot of potential uses that don't involve video games. How about a paralyzed person using it to steer a wheelchair. Just need 5 macros, forward, left, right, back, stop.
There has been research already with devices that read facial muscles, eye movements, and even implanted EEG sensors, for basic control of computers to communicate.
EEG Binoculars.
DARPA "Silent Talk"
So there could be something to this stuff. I have to admit it tickles my geek fancy (and imagination) fiercely.
It is scheduled to ship on Dec 21st. Should have it on christmas eve, so I'll see if it does anything at all by the week after.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2009 : 15:37:20 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Cue paranoid conspiracist claiming the device controls brainwaves in 3... 2... 1...
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Yep. I'm betting it's the Chinese. After all we have seen this type of game before.
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Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2009 : 15:38:50 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dude
This device claims to be able to read EEG changes associated with specific thoughts, not just changes in alpha/beta waves.
It will also probably read impulses to facial muscles.
There was a DARPA project a few years ago that was working on a weapon sight with an integrated EEG, that would help the guy with the trigger to consciously notice things he/she might otherwise overlook.
There is a DARPA project underway right now to use sensitive high resolution EEG to try and read actual words as you think them. The goal is a fully silent and secure communication system, but they think they can get a 100 word vocabulary though this thing within the next 10 years. More than enough for spec ops troops, kinda like an invisible sign language. There is also some application there for hands-free control of weapons systems on fighter planes (Clint Eastwood FIREFOX style!). If it pans out, of course. |
Very cool! But my understanding is that headsets which are able to "read" more complex thought processes need to be laboriously calibrated to each individual user, making them impossible to mass produce for universal use. But maybe that's already changing. In any case, I'm with you. The possibilities of this technology are extremely exciting. Who knows where it might lead 5, 10 or 20 years down the line?
And good call on Firefox! I wonder how many other people remember that film. Hopefully none of us will have to think in Russian to use these devices.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 11/17/2009 15:41:25 |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2009 : 16:04:10 [Permalink]
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You will have to calibrate this thing to your own personal EEG, yes.
It will probably require some practice to use.
20 minute presentation on the device (from the CEO of the company, so bring a grain of salt) Interesting though.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2009 : 16:21:08 [Permalink]
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From what they advertise it uses some complex math to make sense out of the EEG readings. Proprietary algorithm they developed in house.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 12/26/2009 : 09:40:55 [Permalink]
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I have this thing in hand. Have to work today and tomorrow though, so won't have a chance to play with it till maybe Sunday night. I'll update after I have a chance to see if it works.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict
2830 Posts |
Posted - 12/26/2009 : 10:26:33 [Permalink]
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| Looking at the picture of the woman wearing it, from the link in the first post, only two of the pickups are touching skin. The others are on hair, not conducive to signal reception coming from the brain. Experiment with pickup placement, maybe you have a bald or shaved friend for testing. Awaiting field report, Dude. SS |
There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS |
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Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
Posted - 12/26/2009 : 11:24:45 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dude
I have this thing in hand. Have to work today and tomorrow though, so won't have a chance to play with it till maybe Sunday night. I'll update after I have a chance to see if it works. |
Hope its not anything like Uncle Rico's Time Machine:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gducgTcJMMU |
Diversity, independence, innovation and imagination are progressive concepts ultimately alien to the conservative mind.
"TAX AND SPEND" IS GOOD! (TAX: Wealthy corporations who won't go poor even after taxes. SPEND: On public works programs, education, the environment, improvements.) |
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Geekpokalypse!
