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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 01/07/2010 : 08:31:04 [Permalink]
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Heh, Dances with Smurfs indeed! I'm sold. 
One last question concerning the specs; Do you think that they would come with the DVD, or would I have to buy them separately?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
 Posted - 01/07/2010 : 09:27:56 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
Heh, Dances with Smurfs indeed! I'm sold.
One last question concerning the specs; Do you think that they would come with the DVD, or would I have to buy them separately?
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You won't see it at home in 3D very soon, I'd guess. The eventual DVD release would probably have to be a DVD encoded in some manner that I believe is not yet commercially available, and played upon a monitor type not yet widely available.
Depending on whether such a monitor could produce polarized imaging or (if it has a fast enough frame rate) alternate-frame imaging, the glasses that would have to be worn would be either polarized or the LCD shutter type. (I seem to recall there have been some monitors that are supposed to allow 3D viewing without glasses of any kind.)
At-home 3D is a year or two away, probably. The 3D version of Avatar is viewable right now only at I-Max theaters. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2010 : 09:48:57 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
Originally posted by filthy
Heh, Dances with Smurfs indeed! I'm sold.
One last question concerning the specs; Do you think that they would come with the DVD, or would I have to buy them separately?
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At-home 3D is a year or two away, probably. The 3D version of Avatar is viewable right now only at I-Max theaters.
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Not true...I saw id in Real-3D at a regular theater. |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2010 : 10:54:02 [Permalink]
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There are several technologies to implement the 3D-effect.
Filthy mentioned the old one: Colour-coded images superimposed into one frame with colour-decoding red/green glasses.
The second one I knew of is alternating (time-differentiated, or time-multiplexed) pictures, and glasses with electronically polarised lenses. LCD-style, controlled from the computer. Pic for the left eye on the screen, and a signal makes the right lens of the glasses go black. Next pic for the right eye, computer sets the right lens on the glasses to become transparent and left to go black. Glasses may be wireless with infra-red control.
The third kind I've never heard about. (I've thought about a similar solution in another application but not 3D-movie effects). Glasses with polarising filter angled 90° from eachother, and polarising the images sent to the silver screen accordingly. Very nifty, but requires more advanced hardware.
A DVD may have one or both of the first options, but I don't think the last solution is practical when there's only a few viewers at home watching TV. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2010 : 12:55:08 [Permalink]
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Dr. Mabuse.....
| The third kind I've never heard about. (I've thought about a similar solution in another application but not 3D-movie effects). Glasses with polarising filter angled 90° from eachother, and polarising the images sent to the silver screen accordingly. Very nifty, but requires more advanced hardware. |
Edwin Land, the inventor of Polaroid, first demonstrated 3-D polarized motion pictures in 1936. In 1952 thru 1956, there was a veritable glut (over 50 films) of Polarized 3-D pictures made, beginning with the execreble Bwana Devil in 1952 followed by the marvelously campy Vincent Price in House of Wax in 1953....then many more.
I actually had a pair of myopia correction prescription glasses made with lenses polarized at opposing 45% angles -- just for movie viewing.
| Very nifty, but requires more advanced hardware. |
Actually, the only difference between anaglyph systems and polarized systems is the use of polaroid lens and eyeglass filters instead of red and cyan filters. Both systems require either dual projection lenses or image superimposition and image splitting; or (in the early technology) selsyn motor driven dual projectors. The hardware is actually considerably simpler than that which is required for time-sequential electro/mechanical alternating shuttering lenses or electronically controlled opposed polarization lens systems. Cost of both the projection and viewing components have pretty much ruled out these more complex types of devices.
The only caveat here is that polarized systems do require a silvered surface lenticular screen which is expensive and is indeed a form of "advanced hardware"
The advent of digital photography and CCI has greatly increased the efficiency and precision of 3-D motion pictures, and Avatar is a stunning example of today's technology operating at an extraordinarily high level. |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2010 : 14:33:20 [Permalink]
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Kil......
I actually saw the film twice. I feel the cinematic technology employed in this movie transcends anything previously demonstrated, including Lord of the Rings, 2012, or any other of the recent hi-tech movie offerings.
The plot was indeed horribly plagiarized from several other films and novels and I felt the dialog would have been greatly improved if every actor in the movie spoke Na´vi exclusively without translation.
However, Cameron has succeeded brilliantly in one of his major goals with this film; he has produced a blockbuster ultimately seen by hundreds of millions woldwide that has an irresistable popular appeal and delivers an utterly unambiguous political message with the force of a sledge hammer. People of the average intelligence level of Glenn Beck will come away from this movie with both conscious and subliminal imprinting as to the evil of corporate greed.
The utilization of "mercenary" (who noticed?) US Marines as the military goons destroying the environment and the indigenous peoples of Pandora with delighted abandon was both painfully obvious and strangely effective.
Depiction of the totally greed-driven corporation raping the resources of the world, managed by a ignorant twit totally obsessed by bottom-line mentality was certainly not subtle, but delivered the message in a bulldozer (literally). Still, I think that is a good thing, considering the vast audience this film will receive.
Actually, the conservative apologists and spinmeisters that are currently attacking the film as unkind to both the general corporate image and insulting to the military are pretty much right on target.
That's exactly what Cameron wanted to carry to an enormous audience; and while intellectuals will disdain the film as simplistic and transparent political fare, I think it will actually have a very powerful influence on the national body politic and also on the rest of the world.
BlackWater, Halliburton, and the Marine Corps are receiving a helluva lot of unwelcome publicity from this Cameron epic. I suspect that the global impact will be as much subliminal as literal. Many of the folks that will see this movie will lack the sophistication to connect the dots to today's news. But there will be an imprint.
I can only hope that it will reflected to a significant degree in this fall's elections. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2010 : 15:34:14 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by pleco
Originally posted by HalfMooner
Originally posted by filthy
Heh, Dances with Smurfs indeed! I'm sold.
One last question concerning the specs; Do you think that they would come with the DVD, or would I have to buy them separately?
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At-home 3D is a year or two away, probably. The 3D version of Avatar is viewable right now only at I-Max theaters.
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Not true...I saw id in Real-3D at a regular theater.
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Ah, good! I knew 3D on regular screens via digital projection has been around for some time, but for some reason I'd assumed the 3D release of Avatar was marketed solely through IMax. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2010 : 16:01:06 [Permalink]
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Well gosh Bill. Even if I give you most of the above, and I do think you are being overly optimistic about the effect this movie will have on this nation and the rest of the worlds psyche, I still can't let Cameron off the hook for the laugh-out-loud dialog and his handling of the subject matter, even if it does make his well trodden point, again.
The problem, as I see it, isn't that Cameron doesn't mean well, or that he didn't try hard enough to be original or write compelling dialog. My thinking is that Cameron is a prime example of the Peter Principle. He can't write! He has ideas, but he can't write!
Take the same premise along with the state of the art effects and give them to Peter Jackson or Steven Spielberg, and my guess is that either one of them would have made a much better movie. And they probably would have hired the best screen writers to help them do it.
But yeah, it's a blockbuster. And it will be seen by millions.
Really, I hope you are right. On the other hand, I think it's fair to expect, at the very least, that whatever comedy is in a movie should be intentional. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2010 : 16:50:18 [Permalink]
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Kil.....
| The plot was indeed horribly plagiarized from several other films and novels and I felt the dialog would have been greatly improved if every actor in the movie spoke Na´vi exclusively without translation. |
I meant that I wished that every single word spoken by anyone in the entire movie was spoken in Návi! Completely unintelligible, but it would have improved the dialog!| even if it does make his well trodden point, again. |
You know, I believe that even poor old fat Michael Moore had a small part in the defeat of Bush. I don't think that anything out of Hollywood is decisive in forming public opinion, but there is little doubt that the film industry rides the cutting edge of pop culture, and pop culture, when it becomes pervasive and iconic, does affect political judgement in the electorate.
Political cartoonists and late night comedians and entertainers also affect public political perception in modest way. Four or more years of ever-increasing lampooning of the last administration became an integral part of the pop culture even to the point of many Republicans beginning to curse Bush and Cheney.
Such peripheral erosion of a political edifice seldom is conclusive, but it does help to effect political change! Besides, I have to remain optimistic about something regarding 2010, or I'll just have to go fucking move to California and rot out the rest of my life! |
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podcat
Skeptic Friend
435 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2010 : 21:48:45 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
You won't see it at home in 3D very soon, I'd guess. The eventual DVD release would probably have to be a DVD encoded in some manner that I believe is not yet commercially available, and played upon a monitor type not yet widely available.
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I noticed that Henry Selick's movie "Coraline" is out on DVD in a 2-D and 3-D version. Then again, it may be easier because this is an animated movie. |
“In a modern...society, everybody has the absolute right to believe whatever they damn well please, but they don't have the same right to be taken seriously”.
-Barry Williams, co-founder, Australian Skeptics |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2010 : 22:00:29 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by podcat
Originally posted by HalfMooner
You won't see it at home in 3D very soon, I'd guess. The eventual DVD release would probably have to be a DVD encoded in some manner that I believe is not yet commercially available, and played upon a monitor type not yet widely available.
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I noticed that Henry Selick's movie "Coraline" is out on DVD in a 2-D and 3-D version. Then again, it may be easier because this is an animated movie.
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Ah! Then there must be existing home display systems that allow 3D from DVD's. Probably using high frame-rate monitors (monitors need to be about twice as fast as for good display of 2-D) and shutter glasses.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2010 : 00:02:50 [Permalink]
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Mooner.....
There have been a number of anaglyph 3-D DVD releases for ordinary TV sets in the past few years, including The Polar Express starring Tom Hanks. No special equipment is required other than the red/cyan glasses which come with the DVD. However, the 3-D quality doesn't approach that of the polarization systems used on the big screen in films like Avatar! One critic said:After full screen single disc, widescreen single disc, and widescreen Two-Disc Special Editions released in 2005, an HD-DVD release in 2006, and a Blu-Ray release in 2007, Warner has found a way to go to the Polar Express well again in 2008 by releasing this two-disc edition including the 3-D version of the film on SD DVD (and a Blu-Ray version, too!).
This SD DVD release of Robert Zemeckis' motion capture animated feature contains both the 2-D and 3-D widescreen versions of the film split across two discs. In fact, the 2-D disc is bit identical to the first disc in the Two-Disc Special Edition from 2005. Even the silk-screened on-disc art is the same including the "Disc One" indication. Rather than re-cross that bridge, I will offer up the following link to Herb Kane's enthusiastically positive review for an assessment of the film as well as its 2-D video and audio quality on disc:http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/...commended.html |
Another amateur critic's quote:| That said, I then watched JOURNEY TO THE CENTER OF THE EARTH on BD, and, while an inferior film in terms of story and "acting," the 3-D effects were tremendously better, and I had no difficulty sitting through it start to finish (on a Sony 46" LCD, sitting very close to the screen). If studios can turn out 3-D DVD's that work as well as this one -- even if anaglyph until they can give us an improved, affordable system -- I will continue to buy them. |
However, the Holy Grail is going to be the 3-D, HD, Blu-Ray, no glasses, wide aspect system to be released by Phillips in 2011. That TV set will require quite a bit of new equipment for your home theater, and is not going to be cheap!
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| Edited by - bngbuck on 01/08/2010 00:07:01 |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2010 : 02:09:35 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by bngbuck
Dr. Mabuse.....
| Very nifty, but requires more advanced hardware. |
Actually, the only difference between anaglyph systems and polarized systems is the use of polaroid lens and eyeglass filters instead of red and cyan filters. |
Perhaps I've should have made myself more clear to begin with.
The glasses for viewing are cheap indeed, but the hardware for projecting the image is more advanced, and cost more than an ordinary projector.
| Both systems require either dual projection lenses or image superimposition and image splitting; or (in the early technology) selsyn motor driven dual projectors. The hardware is actually considerably simpler than that which is required for time-sequential electro/mechanical alternating shuttering lenses or electronically controlled opposed polarization lens systems. Cost of both the projection and viewing components have pretty much ruled out these more complex types of devices. |
That depends on what technical solution you'd like to use. If you have two parallel film reels - one for each eye - then yeah, synchronisation will be a bitch. But you can double the frame rate and have alternating frames on the same reel. Then you only have to have a simple projector, and a mechanism for synchronising the LCD-glasses (which you'd have to have anyway). If you have a digital projection system, it's even simpler since everything can be done in software.
But glasses with LCD alternating lens filter cost a lot more, so there's a trade off: you have to weigh the cost of 2-300 glasses (for a cinema audience) against cost of the projection hardware. So the polarised glasses is a good deal, since they won't be too expensive to replace should a few "disappear".
The only caveat here is that polarized systems do require a silvered surface lenticular screen which is expensive and is indeed a form of "advanced hardware"
The advent of digital photography and CCI has greatly increased the efficiency and precision of 3-D motion pictures, and Avatar is a stunning example of today's technology operating at an extraordinarily high level.
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I wish I've could have seen it in 3D. But there weren't any 3D theaters close by. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2010 : 12:43:03 [Permalink]
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Dr. Mabuse.....
| I wish I've could have seen it in 3D. But there weren't any 3D theaters close by. |
You'll have another chance in March when it wins 11 Academy Awards!
Seriously, Mab, the film is worth a good trip to a 3-D Imax theater in a multiplex somewhere to see. It has the most mindblowing CGI and 3-D perfection of any movie ever made. Kil is dead on right about the simplistic dialog, and the story is a little well-worn to anybody that's been going to the the cinema for 20 years or more; but My God (don't ask), the Extra Special effects!!
I drove 70 miles (113 km) to a theater in Spokane just to see it in 3-D IMAX, and it was well worth every mile and minute it took! I even drove it twice! |
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ThorGoLucky
Snuggle Wolf
USA
1487 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2010 : 19:16:40 [Permalink]
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I saw Avatar in 2D because my lamo old-fashioned friends didn't want to see the 3D version that was available just a few minutes later, haha. Anyway, I enjoyed it and found it beautiful and fun.
Regarding woo, I liked that there were non-woo (biological) explanations and all the rituals of the natives could be considered just superfluous religion.
I didn't like the flip-flop perspective that they gave the scientist (Sigourney Weaver). At first she had a science perspective and then the had a kinda woo perspective, if I remember right.
On a side note, while I liked the movie, I HATED the theater antics. You can no longer sit and chat with your friends because of the loud advertisements constantly running before even the previews start. Obnoxious! |
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