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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
 Posted - 01/13/2010 : 02:23:53 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Ricky
A five year jail sentence is not a "slap on the wrist". |
Of course it is, considering he was facing life in prison for premeditated murder in the first place.
| But it isn't as if Roeder put "Will murder abortion doctor on Friday" on his calendar. On the contrary, it is a reasonable assumption that Dr. Tiller had scheduled abortions on his. |
It's not about reason. Quite the contrary.
From Filthy's post:
Kansas law defines voluntary manslaughter as "an unreasonable but honest belief that circumstances existed that justified deadly force."
It's my honest belief that murdering Scott Roeder is a reasonable step in order to protect workers at abortion clinics. I'm not a lawyer, but it seems to me that killing Roeder cannot be considered murder according to Kansas law.
Having committed murder and holding onto a hate of abortion are certainly good reasons to suspect a person. But are they evidence? No.
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In a US court I would definitely state I honestly believe it is...
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2010 : 04:24:35 [Permalink]
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If I might briefly play the devil's advocate, Roeder has the right to present any defense he might have.
And therein lies the rub; juries being what they are, his could well decide to go with voluntary manslaughter instead of 1st degree homicide. The selection of that jury could be a drama in and of itself.
I don't think they will go for the shorter sentence, but who can say? After all, O.J. walked.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2010 : 16:49:25 [Permalink]
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Then there won't be a problem that the judge opens for Roeder's defense to plead voluntary manslaughter. As Halfmooner noted, there's nothing wrong with considering the proposal. It most certainly will not go through, if the conditions you mentioned, Ricky, needs to exist for the plea to be valid.
But isn't it the prosecutor who finally decides if such a plea is acceptable or if Roeder is to be charged with premeditated murder?
Edited to add:
| Each 3211, 3212, 3213 mentions either unlawfully entering a dwelling, or imminent death or great bodily harm is perceived. In your case, you would not meet this criteria. |
Unless I work at an abortion clinic which is being picketed by people carrying more than just signs.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
| Edited by - Dr. Mabuse on 01/13/2010 16:52:38 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2010 : 04:23:00 [Permalink]
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It has begun and Roeder's defense team is indeed going for voluntary manslaughter.
In an impassioned plea before a US court, a born-again Christian argued Thursday that he had killed a prominent abortion doctor because he wanted to save the lives of unborn babies.
Scott Roeder, 51, has pleaded not guilty to a charge of first-degree murder in the May 2009 slaying of Dr. George Tiller in the foyer of a Kansas church.
Instead in an unorthodox move he is seeking to convince jurors that he is guilty of the lesser offense of voluntary manslaughter, because he honestly believed he was saving people from greater harm.
"From conception forward it (abortion) is murder," Scott Roeder told jurors as he took the stand. "It is not man's job to take life. It's never up to man to take life -- except in cases of self-defense or defense of others."
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Will the jury buy it? I dunno; they might. We shall see.....
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2010 : 08:33:08 [Permalink]
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The judge didn't buy it. Heard him speaking on NPR this morning. The judge said that (A) there was no "immanent danger" in a church on a Sunday morning and (B) voluntary manslaughter also requires that the immanently dangerous act that you are defending against be illegal, but abortion is legal.
So Roeder's request was rebuffed from two independent angles. You just know he's going to appeal the decision, though. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2010 : 08:44:10 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
The judge didn't buy it. Heard him speaking on NPR this morning. The judge said that (A) there was no "immanent danger" in a church on a Sunday morning and (B) voluntary manslaughter also requires that the immanently dangerous act that you are defending against be illegal, but abortion is legal.
So Roeder's request was rebuffed from two independent angles. You just know he's going to appeal the decision, though.
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Oh yeah, this is going to go on forever.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2010 : 08:57:26 [Permalink]
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Got the print article on it:
"Filed at 10:34 p.m. ET
WICHITA, Kan. (AP) -- The judge in the trial of a man accused of murdering an abortion doctor dealt the defense a major setback Thursday, ruling that the jury cannot consider a lesser charge of manslaughter.
The ruling came hours after Scott Roeder took the stand in his own defense and admitted killing Dr. George Tiller, saying he acted to save the lives of unborn children.
Roeder's attorneys had hoped to win a lesser conviction of voluntary manslaughter, which requires them to show their client had an unreasonable but honest belief that deadly force was justified. The charge carries a considerably lighter sentence than murder.
Roeder testified that he considered elaborate schemes to stop the doctor, including chopping off his hands, crashing a car into him or sneaking into his home to kill him.
But in the end, Roeder told jurors, the easiest way was to walk into Tiller's church, put a gun to the man's forehead and pull the trigger.
Testifying as the lone defense witness, Roeder calmly explained what he admitted publicly months ago -- that he killed Tiller to save unborn children.
''Those children were in immediate danger if someone did not stop George Tiller,'' Roeder said as the jury watched attentively but without a hint of surprise.
''They were going to continue to die,'' he said. ''The babies were going to continue to die.''
Roeder has pleaded not guilty to murder in the attack at the Wichita church where Tiller was an usher. Witnesses have described how Roeder walked into the building's foyer on May 31 shortly after the service started, approached Tiller and fired a single shot before fleeing.
After Roeder's testimony, District Judge Warren Wilbert ruled that the jury would not be permitted to consider the manslaughter charge because abortion, including late-term abortion, is legal in Kansas and because Tiller did not pose an imminent threat.
''There is no immediate danger in the back of a church,'' the judge said. He also ruled out a second-degree murder conviction, which does not involve premeditation, because it was clear Roeder planned the killing."
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2010 : 09:43:37 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
The judge didn't buy it. Heard him speaking on NPR this morning. The judge said that (A) there was no "immanent danger" in a church on a Sunday morning and (B) voluntary manslaughter also requires that the immanently dangerous act that you are defending against be illegal, but abortion is legal.
So Roeder's request was rebuffed from two independent angles. You just know he's going to appeal the decision, though.
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Well, I don't mind the legal case going on forever, so long as Roeder is kept behind bars as it does. Deserving of execution as I think he is, I prefer that life imprisonment is meted out for capital crimes. Whether Roeder appeals for the rest of his life, or settles down and accepts that he'll always be in prison matters little to me. If he lives a life of dashed hopes, perhaps all the better. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 01/29/2010 11:18:18 |
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Fripp
SFN Regular
USA
727 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2010 : 11:02:17 [Permalink]
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| Just heard on NPR. Guilty of murder. |
"What the hell is an Aluminum Falcon?"
"Oh, I'm sorry. I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a small thermal exhaust port that's only 2-meters wide! That thing wasn't even fully paid off yet! You have any idea what this is going to do to my credit?!?!"
"What? Oh, oh, 'just rebuild it'? Oh, real [bleep]ing original. And who's gonna give me a loan, jackhole? You? You got an ATM on that torso LiteBrite?" |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2010 : 11:17:07 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Fripp
Just heard on NPR. Guilty of murder.
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Yee-haw! |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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ThorGoLucky
Snuggle Wolf
USA
1487 Posts |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2010 : 17:11:59 [Permalink]
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I've read that the jury was out for 37 minutes. Considering the known facts of the case (nailed dead to rights), I'm a little surprised it was that long. Now we get to enjoy the spectacle of the appeals.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict
2830 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2010 : 19:00:17 [Permalink]
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| Freaking right on. A beautiful day in court. SS |
There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2010 : 04:48:17 [Permalink]
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Tough titty!
WICHITA, Kan. (AP)— Those living on the virulent edge of the anti-abortion movement pinned their hopes on Scott Roeder.
Testifying in his own defense, a remorseless and resolute Roeder insisted he had committed a justified act for the defense of unborn children by killing Dr. George Tiller, one of the country's few physicians to offer late-term abortions. It was a bold legal strategy that, if successful, had the potential to radically alter the debate over abortion by reducing the price for committing such an act of violence.
When it failed, those who share Roeder's passionate, militant belief against abortion were outraged: One said they are getting tired of being treated as a "piece of dirt" unable to express the reasons for such acts in court. So while relieved at the outcome, abortion-rights advocates worry a verdict that should be a deterrent will instead further embolden those prone to violence.
"Many of those who came here in his support will be key to making (Roeder) a martyr for their cause _ all in furtherance of advocating deadly violence," said Kathy Spillar, executive vice president of the Feminist Majority Foundation.
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Unfortunately, this won't even slow the anti-choice crowd down. They'll whyine and bitch about it, and probably knock off a few more physians as toime goes on. So much for deterent punishments....
I hope they lock Roeder up in a super-max.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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TANFJ!
