|
|
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 03/06/2010 : 16:41:00
|
It turns out that this ancient, little primate is a relative of neither monkeys nor man, but a lemur ancestor.
"Some Big News Items
By Dave Thomas on March 6, 2010 9:45 AM | 28 Comments | No TrackBacks
Some big stories came out this week.
Science Daily reported on March 3rd that
A fossil that was celebrated last year as a possible “missing link” between humans and early primates is actually a forebearer of modern-day lemurs and lorises, according to two papers by scientists at The University of Texas at Austin, Duke University and the University of Chicago. In an article now available online in the Journal of Human Evolution, four scientists present evidence that the 47-million-year-old Darwinius masillae is not a haplorhine primate like humans, apes and monkeys, as the 2009 research claimed. They also note that the article on Darwinius published last year in the journal PLoS ONE ignores two decades of published research showing that similar fossils are actually strepsirrhines, the primate group that includes lemurs and lorises. ‘Many lines of evidence indicate that Darwinius has nothing at all to do with human evolution,’ says Chris Kirk, associate professor of anthropology at The University of Texas at Austin. ‘Every year, scientists describe new fossils that contribute to our understanding of primate evolution. What’s amazing about Darwinius is, despite the fact that it’s nearly complete, it tells us very little that we didn’t already know from fossils of closely related species.’ .. "
At the end of the story(s) there are two, the following statement is made:
While creationists are sure to glom onto these stories as evidence that any change of opinions over time means entire disciplines are simply nonsense, both of these stories show science incorporating new information, and improving with age.
Contrast that with creationism or “intelligent design,” for which nothing becomes clearer or better understood over time. Hmm - what is the actual mechanism by which the Designer infuses new designs into actual, living organisms? Search me!
|
And did they glom on to it? Bet yer sweet bippy they did! From AiG:
1. ScienceDaily: “‘Missing Link’ Fossil Was Not Human Ancestor as Claimed, Anthropologists Say”
Many readers have probably forgotten “Ida,” the fossil primate whose fifteen minutes of media-frenzied fame as a “missing link” was cut short.
We tipped readers off about the find last May, shortly before its widely publicized unveiling. Almost immediately, prominent scientists heavily criticized the exaggerated claims in their talks with journalists, and less than a week after Ida was presented, we wrote:
The bigger story now is how so much of the media was irresponsibly caught up in the hype—and why there was a coordinated media effort in the first place. While the fossil is definitely not a fraud, it appears the hype was: the dramatic “missing link” conclusions presented to the public were not present in the scientific paper, having been removed during the peer review process. Our guess is that after paying an undisclosed but presumably significant sum for the fossil, the financial backers are demanding a high return on the documentary and book—hence the hype, such as comments like, “When our results are published, it will be just like an asteroid hitting the earth” (from study coauthor Jens Franzen, via the promotional website). . . .
Instead, the better journalists and more skeptical scientists responded in just the opposite way, accusing the study authors of “cherry picking” which facts to highlight. “It’s not a missing link, it’s not even a terribly close relative to monkeys, apes and humans, which is the point they’re trying to make,” said Chris Beard, a curator of vertebrate paleontology at the Carnegie Museum of Natural History. He added, “I would be absolutely dumbfounded if it turns out to be a potential ancestor to humans.”
Shortly thereafter Ida’s price tag—$750,000—was revealed, which seemed to seal popular and scientific opinion against the claims its buyers had presented. But it was not until October, by which time the media had forgotten about Ida, that four U.S. scientists authored a more formal criticism of Ida in a Nature letter.
Which brings us to the present, almost a year after Ida’s announcement. A team of scientists piles on more criticism of the “missing link” interpretation of Ida in new papers appearing in the Journal of Human Evolution and Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. The authors are the anthropologists Chris Kirk of the University of Texas–Austin and Duke University’s Blythe Williams and Richard Kay, along with evolutionary biologist Callum Ross of the University of Chicago. Williams, the lead author, noted that “The Darwinius research completely ignored [the previous] body of literature [on similar fossils].”
Kirk added, “Many lines of evidence indicate that Darwinius has nothing at all to do with human evolution. . . . What’s amazing about Darwinius is, despite the fact that it’s nearly complete, it tells us very little that we didn’t already know from fossils of closely related species.” Summing the team’s argument, he concluded, “You can forget about Darwinius being a close relative of humans or other anthropoids.”
The scientists (who, we recognize, probably disagree with our view as well) believe Ida is actually an ancestor of modern lemurs and lorises. This is quite similar (minus the evolution) to what we said at the time, and what we still believe: that “[n]othing about this fossil suggests it is anything other than an extinct, lemur-like creature.”
|
The point here is that most of the media comprehends squat about science and wouldn't know a fossil if they got hit head with one wrapped in a ransome note. AiG understands this. In the same breath, however, they do no science beyond picking apart the works of others, and the only paleontology they grasp can be found at the Creation Animatronic Carousel they've inflicted upon northern KY.
It is also interesting to note that they drool a bit over the financial aspect of the fossil.
Found it at the Thumb, where, possibly, Ham got it as well.
|
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
|
|
|
the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2010 : 22:52:05 [Permalink]
|
| What gets me is this: Humans still have a lot of links that are found, and a link got added to the ancestry of Lemurs and Lorises. How is the finding of a link in the lineage of any modern animal evidence against evolution? Don't those idiots think? |
>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
 |
|
|
HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2010 : 23:45:28 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by the_ignored
What gets me is this: Humans still have a lot of links that are found, and a link got added to the ancestry of Lemurs and Lorises. How is the finding of a link in the lineage of any modern animal evidence against evolution? Don't those idiots think?
|
Well, they think, but they know their flocks can't. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
|
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 03/08/2010 : 05:23:42 [Permalink]
|
While it's true that Ida hasn't added much, thus far, to the knowledge of that line of species, a fossil in her state of preservation is very rare.
Ida is still sweet as apple cida. 
|
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
|
|
|
|
HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2010 : 14:00:42 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by filthy
While it's true that Ida hasn't added much, thus far, to the knowledge of that line of species, a fossil in her state of preservation is very rare.
Ida is still sweet as apple cida.
|
Agreed. Ida was a wonderful find in great shape, that will probably help our understanding of line that would later lead to the mighty lemur and loris clans.
The cladistics and public handling of the discovery, however, are a nightmare lesson in overreaching and how to destroy careers by bungling, greed, and presumption. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
|
|
|
 |
|
|
|
Darwinius masillae (Ida)
