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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
 Posted - 04/01/2010 : 07:50:10 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Rudolfo
I am a scientist (pretty high powered engineer with a long resume). |
Oh dear.....
No, being an engineer does not make you (or me) a scientist.
| I don't have to look up scientific skepticism. |
It does not make you an expert on the meaning of words either. This statement does show that you are willfully ignorant, dodging facts that does not fit your preconceived ideas, just like other pseudo-skeptics.
Seriously? Are you really this ......?
Even though there is an overlap, science and engineering are different practices. You claim to be an engineer (I'm skeptical  ) and you don't know this???
It was proposed with regard to the creationism debates but the Salem hypothesis seems to fit this case as well:Originally blogged by PZ Myers
It was proposed by a fellow named Bruce Salem who noticed that, in arguments with creationists, if the fellow on the other side claimed to have personal scientific authority, it almost always turned out to be because he had an engineering degree. The hypothesis predicted situations astonishingly well — in the bubbling ferment of talk.origins, there were always new creationists popping up, pompously declaiming that they were scientists and they knew that evolution was false, and subsequent discussion would reveal that yes, indeed, they were the proud recipient of an engineering degree. |
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"Any religion that makes a form of torture into an icon that they worship seems to me a pretty sick sort of religion quite honestly"
-- Terry Jones |
| Edited by - Starman on 04/01/2010 07:57:09 |
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Rudolfo
Banned
124 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2010 : 08:28:06 [Permalink]
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[And yet, when I question your authority, you evade and ridicule.]
Only when warranted. It is my normal policy, and it comes from my engineering background, to give EVERY counterargument the strongest possible interpretation. That is, I don't look for spelling errors, I don't interpret words to mean something they don't, I don't look for technicalities, I don't judge your motives or 'agenda', I try to make your argument as strong as possible. In engineering you have to do that, you have to worry about the unlikely combination of events, or things that you don't understand, that will disrupt your design; you try to understand them, non minimize or discount them, and if they represent a problem you have to redesign, not wish them away. And, I'm surely aware that my knowledge of events is far from complete. So, I do all that. I give your counterargument the benefit of any doubt. It's just common sense to do that if you're trying to discover the truth. Overcoming confirmation bias and all.
However, when all the above is taken into consideration, and your argument is nothing but nonsense, just silly gibberish, or obviously dishonest, then, well, there it is. Like your arguments about the photos, or the gas chambers, etc., these arguments are just pure trash. I give the reasons why, and you just keep yammering about them, which is your job I suppose. So, I just ignore it. I see all sorts of objections to any challenge of the holocaust, from the idiotic name calling to the faux analyses from people who know more about the history than I do. I'm always looking for new info, and occasionally I learn something, like 'confirmation bias', or the name of the 'nurse', I just found out about a children's zoo at Treblinka, etc.
I do wonder about the motives and character of the 'believers'. In fact, it is a big interest of mine. So, if you'd like to tell me a little of your background, and how you came to be such a strong holocaust believer, I'd like to hear it.
And, to be honest, I do think a good percentage of the posters are just Zionist flack. That's my current opinion of Dave. W, but, I sometimes think that some of my best friends are Zionist flack ..... LOL ..... and they barely know what Zionism is ..... they are absolutely certain the holocaust happened, however. |
| Edited by - Rudolfo on 04/01/2010 08:43:43 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2010 : 09:07:19 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Rudolfo
I give the reasons why... |
Liar. You did nothing but ridicule and ignore. You most certainly did not provide any reason why the "unaware" photo should be considered to be evidence, nor have you even addressed the story behind the photo of the children.Yes, you ignore that which is inconvenient for you to keep believing in the myth that you've somehow debunked the Holocaust. Everything you've put forward is crap, so you're forced to ignore all criticisms.| So, if you'd like to tell me a little of your background, and how you came to be such a strong holocaust believer, I'd like to hear it. |
You can't even be honest about what my criticisms have been. Have I actually stated anywhere that I believe the Holocaust narrative? Or have I simply been pointing out your failures to engage it and debunk it, along with your obvious lies about it and the evidence for it? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 04/01/2010 : 09:13:52 [Permalink]
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I am curious, Rudolfo; what field of engineering are you in and where did you earn your degree(s)?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2010 : 10:08:44 [Permalink]
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Rudolfo:
I am a scientist (pretty high powered engineer with a long resume). I don't have to look up scientific skepticism. |
But if you know all about scientific skepticism, why did you point to a dictionary definition that stops well short of including how scientific skepticism differs from philosophical skepticism? You should have known that the dictionary definition was incomplete.
Rudolfo:
Answer: a skeptic is one who doubts ! One who requires evidence and proof! |
This much is true. But there are reasonable limits to doubt. And you have presented no proof that the holocaust was a hoax. How you interpret the photo's, for example, is up to you. But to ignore or ridicule the criticism of your interpretation without addressing them honestly, speaks volumes about your ability to look at a piece of evidence scientifically. You might have learned about confirmation bias, but apparently it doesn't apply to what you do or how you come to your conclusions.
We gave you a forum to present your "proofs" and you have waved away any and all criticism of the evidence you have presented over and over again. You have called the argument about the photos "pure trash" without even addressing the critique. Some scientist you are.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Fripp
SFN Regular
USA
727 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2010 : 11:18:12 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Rudolfo
I am a scientist (pretty high powered engineer with a long resume).
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Appeal To Authority. Still doesn't enhance or validate your argument's "truthiness".
When someone "boasts" about their expertise/skill/prowess, it's usually puffed up with hot air to inflate their own self-worth. Your claim is merely that: a claim. Without supporting evidence (I'm not sure that you know what "supporting evidence" is, since you've yet to show any to support you arguments), your "high-powered-ness" is highly suspect.
| I don't have to look up scientific skepticism. |
Of course you don't. 'Cause that would blow your argument to shreds. |
"What the hell is an Aluminum Falcon?"
"Oh, I'm sorry. I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a small thermal exhaust port that's only 2-meters wide! That thing wasn't even fully paid off yet! You have any idea what this is going to do to my credit?!?!"
"What? Oh, oh, 'just rebuild it'? Oh, real [bleep]ing original. And who's gonna give me a loan, jackhole? You? You got an ATM on that torso LiteBrite?" |
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astropin
SFN Regular
USA
970 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2010 : 12:12:58 [Permalink]
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When did engineers become scientists?
Not in my book. |
I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.
You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.
Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.
Infinitus est numerus stultorum |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2010 : 14:15:33 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by astropin
When did engineers become scientists?
Not in my book.
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Generally engineers use science, they do not advance it as scientists do. |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2010 : 18:30:23 [Permalink]
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| Engineering and science can overlap. I'm sure some engineers do science, and certainly some scientists do engineering, particularly when designing or building their experimental apparatus. But generally the two fields are separated. And engineering is a field that has a reputation for producing a great many more cranks and crackpots than does science, probably because most engineers are not accustomed to employing scientific skepticism in their daily work. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2010 : 20:36:36 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
Engineering and science can overlap. I'm sure some engineers do science, and certainly some scientists do engineering, particularly when designing or building their experimental apparatus. But generally the two fields are separated. And engineering is a field that has a reputation for producing a great many more cranks and crackpots than does science, probably because most engineers are not accustomed to employing scientific skepticism in their daily work. |
No, nobody is saying that engineers can't do science. But anyone who says "I'm an engineer" when they're trying to bolster their scientific creds is full of crap.
It's like being told "I'm a proctologist" when asking a doctor about his qualifications to do brain surgery.
Of course, proctologists do a hell of a lot more studying before they're allowed to ply their trade than Rudolfo has done regarding the arguments he's made about the Holocaust. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Hawks
SFN Regular
Canada
1383 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2010 : 21:06:56 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
Engineering and science can overlap. I'm sure some engineers do science, and certainly some scientists do engineering, particularly when designing or building their experimental apparatus. But generally the two fields are separated. And engineering is a field that has a reputation for producing a great many more cranks and crackpots than does science, probably because most engineers are not accustomed to employing scientific skepticism in their daily work.
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Yeah, and witness the number of engineers that are ID supporters. Engineers are also more likely to become terrorists... |
METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden! |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2010 : 21:34:24 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Hawks
Originally posted by HalfMooner
Engineering and science can overlap. I'm sure some engineers do science, and certainly some scientists do engineering, particularly when designing or building their experimental apparatus. But generally the two fields are separated. And engineering is a field that has a reputation for producing a great many more cranks and crackpots than does science, probably because most engineers are not accustomed to employing scientific skepticism in their daily work.
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Yeah, and witness the number of engineers that are ID supporters. Engineers are also more likely to become terrorists... |
And good ones, too. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2010 : 21:37:37 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by HalfMooner
Engineering and science can overlap. I'm sure some engineers do science, and certainly some scientists do engineering, particularly when designing or building their experimental apparatus. But generally the two fields are separated. And engineering is a field that has a reputation for producing a great many more cranks and crackpots than does science, probably because most engineers are not accustomed to employing scientific skepticism in their daily work. |
No, nobody is saying that engineers can't do science. But anyone who says "I'm an engineer" when they're trying to bolster their scientific creds is full of crap.
It's like being told "I'm a proctologist" when asking a doctor about his qualifications to do brain surgery.
Of course, proctologists do a hell of a lot more studying before they're allowed to ply their trade than Rudolfo has done regarding the arguments he's made about the Holocaust.
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Well, I basically agree. My last sentence was the most important part. The rest was just trying to sort out the engineering/science gray area. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular
Norway
1273 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2010 : 23:22:13 [Permalink]
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| Trust me, I'm a scientist |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2010 : 03:15:35 [Permalink]
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Hmph, I think he's a latter-day alchemist.
I also think he's a latter-day alchemist traveling on a sock.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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| Edited by - filthy on 04/02/2010 09:04:18 |
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The holocaust conspiracy
