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Ebone4rock
SFN Regular
USA
894 Posts |
 Posted - 04/19/2010 : 12:05:40
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The area of personal philosophy I have been wrestling with the most the past few years is how to reconcile my own skepticism with the superstitious nature of my in-law family. Here are some samples of things that have been brought up recently.
-magnetic bracelet that increases good health
-the serious benefit of using nitrogen in your tires rather than air
-Faith healing
-the fact that God spared Hawaii from the tsunami(but he must have said "screw you earthquake a-holes in Chile")
The problem comes when I could very easily demonstrate facts to de-bunk these things (i.e. the magnetic bracelet or the cost vs. benefit of nitrogen in tires) or I could point out the obvious cognitive dissonance of such things as God sparing Hawaii but killing many in Chile.
I chose to keep my mouth shut and let them believe what they will because the last thing I want to do is make the people I love hate me. I don't know if this is the right approach or not.
How do you handle these things?
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Haole with heart, thats all I'll ever be. I'm not a part of the North Shore society. Stuck on the shoulder, that's where you'll find me. Digging for scraps with the kooks in line. -Offspring |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2010 : 13:17:16 [Permalink]
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I have a younger brother whom I love, but who is majorly a woo-woo. For the most part, I have given up confronting him on his most wild beliefs, such as 9-11 Truth, visiting space aliens, Bigfoot, Nessie, a number of politically paranoid ideas common among some on the left, and on and on.
I now concentrate on trying to instill the generals ideas scientific skepticism. Oddly enough, even with the list I've given, his woo beliefs are far vaster than just those, yet on most subjects, he accepts science as being the best approach for learning truths. I keep hammering away about using the "skeptic's toolkit" for critical thinking.
I don't expect I'll ever convert my brother to solid skepticism, but at least I think I'm managing to keep him from drifting further into irrationality.
I can't honestly say that this approach is best for your in-laws. It really depends on where their heads are at. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 04/19/2010 13:18:50 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2010 : 17:37:25 [Permalink]
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I have in-laws who are deeply devout Pentecostals, and I'm getting less and less worried about saying the wrong things to them for a few reasons.
1) I'd much rather stay home than go to family gatherings, anyway.
2) My mother-in-law seems to really enjoy our chats about religion (she's not one of the devout, and the more I talk about the ridiculousness of the Bible, the more she seems interested).
3) My wife loves me (of course, she's an atheist, also). |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2010 : 23:50:44 [Permalink]
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I believe honesty is the best policy. My tactic with anyone, family or not, is to make my position on any topic perfectly clear without being insulting. Most people in the world are completely unaware of how much they don't know, and everyone thinks themselves to be informed on a topic even when they aren't. People cannot make informed decisions without having all the relevant facts. But how will they ever know they don't have all the relevant facts unless someone speaks up and corrects them? There's always the possibility that they will be interested in what I have to say and change their position. Or even better, there's the possibility that further discussion will lead me to change my mind about something. I love that feeling. It means my brain hasn't stopped working.
Of course, many times people are just looking for affirmation of what they already believe, which they won't necessarily get from me. They may see any form of disagreement or criticism as a personal attack. I always try to be clear that it's not, but if someone is intent on feeling insulted then they will. I don't feel bad about hurting someone's feeling in that case, though, since the only thing you're really injuring is their egos. If someone brings up a subject like religion, then they are the ones inviting discussion. I haven't forced my opinions onto them, it was their choice to broach the subject. And if they don't like my answers, too bad. That means I probably didn't like their answers either. We can agree to disagree at that point. But at least they know where I stand. They know I'm not going to shout "amen!" whenever they bring up Jesus, and so they'll probably avoid the topic with me from then on.
So really I look at it as win-win. Best case: you change some minds. Worse case: they know how you feel and avoid bringing up uncomfortable topics in your presence.
It isn't as hard as you might think to be frank with people. My wife is being treated for cancer at the moment. In the hospital, she met another woman going through the same thing. We had a brief but pleasant chat, and then the woman ended with "You've just got to have faith in the Lord." My wife smiled and said "I'm an atheist." The woman didn't seem overly perturbed by the fact that my wife didn't have Jesus in her life. She just said "Well, you have got to have faith in something." I knew what she meant. Everyone needs something to hope for, to trust in. My wife said "I trust in science," and believe it or not the woman nodded along with that. Hard to hate science when you're counting on it to save your life.
So, anyway, my point is, even though the woman chose to evangelize to two strangers she had just met who turned out to be atheists, she was quickly but pleasantly rebuffed until common ground was found and we all parted ways smiling.
I don't think a lot of people even recognize how many of the things they say amount to proselytizing. They're just little religious sayings, empty words to say when nothing else comes to mind. The people spouting them don't necessarily mean to provoke conflict. But I think it's important to speak up--tactfully, politely, and with a smile on your face--against these little overt displays of religiosity if for no other reason than to show people that nice normal atheists do exist, and furthermore that we aren't ashamed to be atheists. You'd be surprised how just expressing your godless opinions with confidence as if they are the most normal thing in the world will often lead people to treat you in the same manner. I think because for them to freak out or throw a fit over your admission would look bad on them. They'd have to be rude, make a scene, stomp off. And honestly most people just don't act that way. Now, they may talk about you later behind your back...  . But if you left a good impression, maybe that isn't always a bad thing.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 04/20/2010 00:07:14 |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2010 : 23:58:19 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Ebone4rock
I chose to keep my mouth shut and let them believe what they will because the last thing I want to do is make the people I love hate me. |
You sit and listen to all of your family's crazy opinions. Does it make you hate them? No, you say you love them. So why would you think that they would hate you for expressing your opinions? Maybe you need to give them a little more credit. I mean, what's the worst that could happen?
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 04/20/2010 00:15:09 |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2010 : 01:25:23 [Permalink]
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Hey Ebone4rock, you're not alone. Thanks for the question, and thanks to everyone else for the answers.
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I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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astropin
SFN Regular
USA
970 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2010 : 11:12:35 [Permalink]
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| With my friends I let them have it....same with most strangers if it's not going to impact my business. Family is harder. I'll lay into my immediate family (Parents & siblings)....but with the in-laws it's much harder and I tend to just stay out of it. |
I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.
You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.
Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.
Infinitus est numerus stultorum |
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Ebone4rock
SFN Regular
USA
894 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2010 : 11:22:45 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by astropin
With my friends I let them have it....same with most strangers if it's not going to impact my business. Family is harder. I'll lay into my immediate family (Parents & siblings)....but with the in-laws it's much harder and I tend to just stay out of it.
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Now that I think about it I do the same thing. Last weekend I saw that my mother was reading Return of Planet-X by Jaysen Rand. I had no problem saying to her "You do realize thuis guy is nuts right? His PHD is just honorary from some Russian college." My in-laws are a totally different story though. I would never challenge them on anything. I don't know why. |
Haole with heart, thats all I'll ever be. I'm not a part of the North Shore society. Stuck on the shoulder, that's where you'll find me. Digging for scraps with the kooks in line. -Offspring |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2010 : 11:52:54 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Ebone4rock
Originally posted by astropin
With my friends I let them have it....same with most strangers if it's not going to impact my business. Family is harder. I'll lay into my immediate family (Parents & siblings)....but with the in-laws it's much harder and I tend to just stay out of it.
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Now that I think about it I do the same thing. Last weekend I saw that my mother was reading Return of Planet-X by Jaysen Rand. I had no problem saying to her "You do realize thuis guy is nuts right? His PHD is just honorary from some Russian college." My in-laws are a totally different story though. I would never challenge them on anything. I don't know why.
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I think that weighing the probability of changing one's in-laws' minds versus the likelihood of causing marital tension might silence any skeptic for good reason in such a situation. This is s tricky problem. What to do depends upon too many factors for an outsider to be able to give definite advice. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Ebone4rock
SFN Regular
USA
894 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2010 : 11:56:43 [Permalink]
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[/quote]I think that weighing the probability of changing one's in-laws' minds versus the likelihood of causing marital tension might silence any skeptic for good reason in such a situation. This is s tricky problem. What to do depends upon too many factors for an outsider to be able to give definite advice.
[/quote]
Yes, at that point you have to put aside any intellectual reasoning and rely on pure survival instinct. |
Haole with heart, thats all I'll ever be. I'm not a part of the North Shore society. Stuck on the shoulder, that's where you'll find me. Digging for scraps with the kooks in line. -Offspring |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2010 : 12:01:32 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Ebone4rock
I think that weighing the probability of changing one's in-laws' minds versus the likelihood of causing marital tension might silence any skeptic for good reason in such a situation. This is s tricky problem. What to do depends upon too many factors for an outsider to be able to give definite advice.
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Yes, at that point you have to put aside any intellectual reasoning and rely on pure survival instinct.
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Absolutely! "Irrational" instinct has its place now and then. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict
2830 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2010 : 14:48:00 [Permalink]
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| I too didn't want to suggest what works for me, as that may not work for you Ebone4rock. Seeing how you've gotten excellent replies and your in your own unique situation. Being respectful and collected is always a plus. Being in the moment helps too, tuned and focused to their body language and replies should give you ample warning when your in damgerous territory. Like walking on ice over water. Tread softly and watch for signs your about to end up where you don't want to be, wet and out in the cold. I don't see how it's wrong to wind a topic down and say " well, you could be right, I don't know everything". Giving them the same right to believe what they want, as you have. I know when I die religion will still be around. That thought lets me accept I'm not going to save the world from religion in my lifetime. SS |
There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS |
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astropin
SFN Regular
USA
970 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2010 : 14:17:33 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by sailingsoul
I too didn't want to suggest what works for me, as that may not work for you Ebone4rock. Seeing how you've gotten excellent replies and your in your own unique situation. Being respectful and collected is always a plus. Being in the moment helps too, tuned and focused to their body language and replies should give you ample warning when your in damgerous territory. Like walking on ice over water. Tread softly and watch for signs your about to end up where you don't want to be, wet and out in the cold. I don't see how it's wrong to wind a topic down and say " well, you could be right, I don't know everything". Giving them the same right to believe what they want, as you have. I know when I die religion will still be around. That thought lets me accept I'm not going to save the world from religion in my lifetime. SS
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Hey thanks for deflating all my hopes and dreams (jk)
The "well, you could be right, I don't know everything" has saved my but more than once......even though I don't really mean it. :) |
I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.
You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.
Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.
Infinitus est numerus stultorum |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2010 : 15:00:12 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by sailingsoul
That thought lets me accept I'm not going to save the world from religion in my lifetime. |
Well, you certainly won't with that attitude.  |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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ThorGoLucky
Snuggle Wolf
USA
1487 Posts |
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Reconciling My Own Skepticism and Family Issues
