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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
 Posted - 04/21/2010 : 07:18:40 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
Let me decide what is right for me and you can do what you want as well. |
How is your having to salt your own food taking that decision away from you?| But a choice is being taken away from buisness. |
Probably one of the worst decisions in American jurisprudence was to give corporations the full legal status of actual human beings. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2010 : 07:20:42 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
Yes, but why should you decided for others what is bad for them. I drink Dr. Pepper, not a very healthy choice but it is my decision and not anyone elses. |
Just like the right to swing your fist ends at my nose, the right for you to give yourself health problems ends when it affects my insurance premiums or taxes.
Also, the motto of the United States of America is not "Every Man for Himself." |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2010 : 07:24:21 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Ebone4rock
It's the individuals own damn problem if they can't make good decisions. |
No, it's not. If we were all hermits living in isolated caves and never having an effect on one another, you'd have a point. But our society isn't like that. Bad choices by one or a few people can have wide-ranging effects. We just had the anniversary of the Oklahoma City bombing, forcryingoutloud.
Furthermore, your comment smacks of social Darwinism. Screw that. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Ebone4rock
SFN Regular
USA
894 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2010 : 07:37:12 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by Ebone4rock
It's the individuals own damn problem if they can't make good decisions. |
No, it's not. If we were all hermits living in isolated caves and never having an effect on one another, you'd have a point. But our society isn't like that. Bad choices by one or a few people can have wide-ranging effects. We just had the anniversary of the Oklahoma City bombing, forcryingoutloud.
Furthermore, your comment smacks of social Darwinism. Screw that.
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First off Dave, you just used a variation of one of my favorite sayings....my version is the upper midwest version though.....mine is " fer da cryin' out loud".
You comment has made me think about how I possibly came about my point of view. I grew up in a very small town where I had millions of acres of forest as my playground. Kind of like a hermit.
You just gave me an interesting point to ponder. |
Haole with heart, thats all I'll ever be. I'm not a part of the North Shore society. Stuck on the shoulder, that's where you'll find me. Digging for scraps with the kooks in line. -Offspring |
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2010 : 07:46:56 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
Basically you are smarter than others so you get to decide what they eat. |
If you have an unsalted product and you can decide to put salt in or not, you are actually do one deciding what to eat. Currently, companies decide that for you.
"It will be found an unjust and unwise jealousy to deprive a man of his natural liberty upon the supposition he may abuse it." ~ George Washington
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Well, that settles it then. Take salt out and let people decide for themselves again. |
Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2010 : 07:50:04 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Ebone4rock
First off Dave, you just used a variation of one of my favorite sayings....my version is the upper midwest version though.....mine is " fer da cryin' out loud". |
| You comment has made me think about how I possibly came about my point of view. I grew up in a very small town where I had millions of acres of forest as my playground. Kind of like a hermit. |
Except even then, I'm sure if you had gone missing, possibly thousands of man-hours of effort would have gone into searching those woods for you (or at least your corpse). Yeah, you and your family already paid for such things in your taxes, but that's tax money that couldn't then be spent on feeding or providing medical treatment for the poor in your county (for just two examples).| You just gave me an interesting point to ponder. |
Thank you. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Ebone4rock
SFN Regular
USA
894 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2010 : 07:54:09 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by Ebone4rock
It's the individuals own damn problem if they can't make good decisions. |
Furthermore, your comment smacks of social Darwinism. Screw that.
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Another great thing for me to think about. If Darwinism works for evolving species then why not for evolving society?
Another topic for another day I guess. |
Haole with heart, thats all I'll ever be. I'm not a part of the North Shore society. Stuck on the shoulder, that's where you'll find me. Digging for scraps with the kooks in line. -Offspring |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2010 : 08:02:01 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Ebone4rock
Another great thing for me to think about. If Darwinism works for evolving species then why not for evolving society? |
The thing is, even Darwin repudiated social Darwinism:The aid which we feel impelled to give to the helpless is mainly an incidental result of the instinct of sympathy, which was originally acquired as part of the social instincts, but subsequently rendered, in the manner previously indicated, more tender and more widely diffused. Nor could we check our sympathy, even at the urging of hard reason, without deterioration in the noblest part of our nature. The surgeon may harden himself whilst performing an operation, for he knows that he is acting for the good of his patient; but if we were intentionally to neglect the weak and helpless, it could only be for a contingent benefit, with an overwhelming present evil.— The Descent of Man (my bold) |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Ebone4rock
SFN Regular
USA
894 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2010 : 08:02:09 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by tomk80
Originally posted by Robb
Basically you are smarter than others so you get to decide what they eat. |
If you have an unsalted product and you can decide to put salt in or not, you are actually do one deciding what to eat. Currently, companies decide that for you.
"It will be found an unjust and unwise jealousy to deprive a man of his natural liberty upon the supposition he may abuse it." ~ George Washington
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Well, that settles it then. Take salt out and let people decide for themselves again.
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There again it should not be government's place to do that. It is the consumers place to demand it from the companies. |
Haole with heart, thats all I'll ever be. I'm not a part of the North Shore society. Stuck on the shoulder, that's where you'll find me. Digging for scraps with the kooks in line. -Offspring |
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Ebone4rock
SFN Regular
USA
894 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2010 : 08:07:46 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by Ebone4rock
Another great thing for me to think about. If Darwinism works for evolving species then why not for evolving society? |
The thing is, even Darwin repudiated social Darwinism:The aid which we feel impelled to give to the helpless is mainly an incidental result of the instinct of sympathy, which was originally acquired as part of the social instincts, but subsequently rendered, in the manner previously indicated, more tender and more widely diffused. Nor could we check our sympathy, even at the urging of hard reason, without deterioration in the noblest part of our nature. The surgeon may harden himself whilst performing an operation, for he knows that he is acting for the good of his patient; but if we were intentionally to neglect the weak and helpless, it could only be for a contingent benefit, with an overwhelming present evil.— The Descent of Man (my bold)
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Then it is a matter of where each individual's sympathies lie. I have sympathies for many situations but I can equally say " fuck 'em" to many people's situations without feeing bad about myself. |
Haole with heart, thats all I'll ever be. I'm not a part of the North Shore society. Stuck on the shoulder, that's where you'll find me. Digging for scraps with the kooks in line. -Offspring |
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Fripp
SFN Regular
USA
727 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2010 : 08:12:31 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
So its ok for a government to be somewhat oppressive because other governments are more oppressive?
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I never said oppressive. It is you who conflated the regulation of companies who put salt into food with the tyranny of individuals. Do you honestly feel that the regulation of a company's salt additive practices is equivalent to, say, the actions of Robert Mugabe's govt?
By your reasoning, you would agree that companies should continue to get subsidies for growing corn. Said subsidies motivate companies to put corn syrup into every piece of food they can, then be able to sell it far cheaper than more healthy foods. These corn syrup-engorged foods are a major factor in the obesity and diabetes-prevalence of the American people. The above medical problems are having a major financially detrimental impact on our economy and is impacting our health care.
Your argument is also either False Dichotomy or Logical Extreme (not sure which applies better - I might have the definitions wrong, as well). |
"What the hell is an Aluminum Falcon?"
"Oh, I'm sorry. I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a small thermal exhaust port that's only 2-meters wide! That thing wasn't even fully paid off yet! You have any idea what this is going to do to my credit?!?!"
"What? Oh, oh, 'just rebuild it'? Oh, real [bleep]ing original. And who's gonna give me a loan, jackhole? You? You got an ATM on that torso LiteBrite?" |
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Fripp
SFN Regular
USA
727 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2010 : 08:22:52 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
Yes, but why should you decided for others what is bad for them.
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It can be argued that speed limits, the drinking age, drug regulation, and the legality of prostitution (or the lack thereof) is deciding for others what is good for them.
But the regulation is aimed at companies who take advantage of lazy and poorly-informed consumers. As for the individual, do whatever you want to your body, but don't burden society with the repercussions of your habits.
In PA, the helmet law was rescinded. In my opinion, if you're dumb enough to ride without a helmet, than you can pay entirely out of your own pocket for any medical expenses incurred because you didn't have proper head protection.
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"What the hell is an Aluminum Falcon?"
"Oh, I'm sorry. I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a small thermal exhaust port that's only 2-meters wide! That thing wasn't even fully paid off yet! You have any idea what this is going to do to my credit?!?!"
"What? Oh, oh, 'just rebuild it'? Oh, real [bleep]ing original. And who's gonna give me a loan, jackhole? You? You got an ATM on that torso LiteBrite?" |
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2010 : 09:00:38 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Ebone4rock
There again it should not be government's place to do that. It is the consumers place to demand it from the companies.
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Why? Why should a companies be allowed to run in a manner oppressive to the individual. |
Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
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Fripp
SFN Regular
USA
727 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2010 : 09:25:17 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by tomk80
Why should a companies be allowed to run in a manner oppressive to the individual.
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To follow up on this thought, we are FAR more in danger of being oppressed by corporations than by our government. Coincidentally, as I write this, NPR is playing an interview with the director of the movie, Food, Inc. If you have any question as to who is MORE protected by our government, corporations or individuals, consider this: if you endanger a corporation's profits you could held liable for damages. You are literally not allowed to disparage food. You can (and will) be sued. Don't believe me? Just ask Oprah. |
"What the hell is an Aluminum Falcon?"
"Oh, I'm sorry. I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a small thermal exhaust port that's only 2-meters wide! That thing wasn't even fully paid off yet! You have any idea what this is going to do to my credit?!?!"
"What? Oh, oh, 'just rebuild it'? Oh, real [bleep]ing original. And who's gonna give me a loan, jackhole? You? You got an ATM on that torso LiteBrite?" |
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2010 : 09:26:35 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Fripp
To follow up on this thought, we are FAR more in danger of being oppressed by corporations than by our government. Coincidentally, as I write this, NPR is playing an interview with the director of the movie, Food, Inc. If you have any question as to who is MORE protected by our government, corporations or individuals, consider this: if you endanger a corporation's profits you could held liable for damages. You are literally not allowed to disparage food. You can (and will) be sued. Don't believe me? Just ask Oprah.
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Mclibel also is an interesting documentary in that respect.
Although I am always suspicious when Oprah enters the picture. Point being that if Oprah made a claim about life style or health, how I know Oprah the claim is likely to be incorrect. |
Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
| Edited by - tomk80 on 04/21/2010 09:28:29 |
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So it starts
