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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 04/30/2010 : 11:15:16
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Ok, that's it. The only difference between Republicans and Democrats is that one is more cowardly than the other, which is saying a lot. As of now, I am no longer a voter. Next week, I will have my name stricken from the rolls.
Link
Welcome to fascist America! 
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Paulos23
Skeptic Friend
USA
446 Posts |
Posted - 04/30/2010 : 12:52:03 [Permalink]
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| Once again the politicians are looking at the immigration problem the wrong way. |
You can go wrong by being too skeptical as readily as by being too trusting. -- Robert A. Heinlein
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley |
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Ebone4rock
SFN Regular
USA
894 Posts |
Posted - 04/30/2010 : 12:58:19 [Permalink]
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How about this for a compromise.....We allow all of the hot Mexican chicks to become citizens and send the ugly ones and the men home.
Would this method of immigration be politically correct? |
Haole with heart, thats all I'll ever be. I'm not a part of the North Shore society. Stuck on the shoulder, that's where you'll find me. Digging for scraps with the kooks in line. -Offspring |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
 Posted - 04/30/2010 : 16:12:22 [Permalink]
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It's like some competition to see who can come up with the most absurd immigration law.
If the dem failure to procure real healthcare reform, when they had 60 senate votes, wasn't enough to make me stop voting for them, then this surely is.
I'll be throwing my vote away on some 3rd party or indie candidate, if I even bother.
Dems (in the legislature) are usless assholes, the only thing worse is a republican.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 04/30/2010 : 18:43:40 [Permalink]
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Meh. Too soon to get my knickers into a bind. I don't think it will fly.
Dude:
If the dem failure to procure real healthcare reform, when they had 60 senate votes, wasn't enough to make me stop voting for them, then this surely is. |
They never had the 60 votes and you know it. The Blue dogs and Lieberman saw to that. If it weren't for them, we would have a public option. As it is, they did go to reconciliation with what they could, after Obama gave up on trying to get any kind of bipartisan support. If it were up to the Republicans, we would have gotten nothing. How you can blame all or even most of the Democrats (in the legislature) for what went down is baffling to me.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Machi4velli
SFN Regular
USA
854 Posts |
Posted - 04/30/2010 : 21:35:16 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
Meh. Too soon to get my knickers into a bind. I don't think it will fly.
Dude:
If the dem failure to procure real healthcare reform, when they had 60 senate votes, wasn't enough to make me stop voting for them, then this surely is. |
They never had the 60 votes and you know it. The Blue dogs and Lieberman saw to that. If it weren't for them, we would have a public option. As it is, they did go to reconciliation with what they could, after Obama gave up on trying to get any kind of bipartisan support. If it were up to the Republicans, we would have gotten nothing. How you can blame all or even most of the Democrats (in the legislature) for what went down is baffling to me. |
While there are 58 Dems and 2 sort-of-Dems, they had 60 that associate with then, but they definitely didn't have 60 supporting, they apparently had to buy some of the ones they did get with political ads. (That or one of my congresswomen who held out spontaneously began getting DNC-funded ads selling her support to viewers in a non-election year.) |
"Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people."
-Giordano Bruno
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, but the illusion of knowledge."
-Stephen Hawking
"Seeking what is true is not seeking what is desirable"
-Albert Camus |
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 04/30/2010 : 23:19:56 [Permalink]
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Seriously?
What did you expect? That there would be no nitwits, hypocrites, incompetents, megalomaniacs or sociopaths in the democratic party?
Every election is a choice among evils. You vote against the worst candidate/party/coalition and not for the hypocrite/hypocrites that might pay lip service to your values but screw you over as soon as the election are over. |
"Any religion that makes a form of torture into an icon that they worship seems to me a pretty sick sort of religion quite honestly"
-- Terry Jones |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2010 : 07:47:28 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
Meh. Too soon to get my knickers into a bind. I don't think it will fly.
Dude:
If the dem failure to procure real healthcare reform, when they had 60 senate votes, wasn't enough to make me stop voting for them, then this surely is. |
They never had the 60 votes and you know it. The Blue dogs and Lieberman saw to that. If it weren't for them, we would have a public option. As it is, they did go to reconciliation with what they could, after Obama gave up on trying to get any kind of bipartisan support. If it were up to the Republicans, we would have gotten nothing. How you can blame all or even most of the Democrats (in the legislature) for what went down is baffling to me.
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THAT is an interesting bit of revisionist history.
The public option and single payer plans were never even considered seriously by democrats. Also, 50 votes at reconciliation (with the VP to break the tie) is all you need. The dems had that, hell, they still have that!
But the disgusting pigfuckers are scared that a republican will beat them in the next election with their superior spin machine.
So what we end up with instead of a public option or single payer is some watered down reform to mollify the base while the majority of the bill is a giant government welfare program for insurance companies.
Democrats are cowards, the only reason they aren't worse than republicans is because they are mostly not hyopcritical assholes in addition to being chicken shit.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2010 : 09:56:25 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dude
Originally posted by Kil
Meh. Too soon to get my knickers into a bind. I don't think it will fly.
Dude:
If the dem failure to procure real healthcare reform, when they had 60 senate votes, wasn't enough to make me stop voting for them, then this surely is. |
They never had the 60 votes and you know it. The Blue dogs and Lieberman saw to that. If it weren't for them, we would have a public option. As it is, they did go to reconciliation with what they could, after Obama gave up on trying to get any kind of bipartisan support. If it were up to the Republicans, we would have gotten nothing. How you can blame all or even most of the Democrats (in the legislature) for what went down is baffling to me.
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THAT is an interesting bit of revisionist history.
The public option and single payer plans were never even considered seriously by democrats. Also, 50 votes at reconciliation (with the VP to break the tie) is all you need. The dems had that, hell, they still have that!
But the disgusting pigfuckers are scared that a republican will beat them in the next election with their superior spin machine.
So what we end up with instead of a public option or single payer is some watered down reform to mollify the base while the majority of the bill is a giant government welfare program for insurance companies.
Democrats are cowards, the only reason they aren't worse than republicans is because they are mostly not hyopcritical assholes in addition to being chicken shit.
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The house passed a bill with a public option. The Senate was much tougher on the option, and to get a bill though a lot of dealing had to be done. Again, the blue dogs and Lieberman torpedoed the option in the Senate. But you are blaming all of the democrats.
If it pleases you to think that the more progressive dems, and most of the moderates didn't do all they could do, that's your prerogative. I think you are wrong. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2010 : 21:45:08 [Permalink]
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Kil said:
| But you are blaming all of the democrats. |
Yes I am. Because if you take away Traitorman and the "blue"dogs, you STILL HAVE MORE THAN 50 VOTES!
There are only nine of them in the senate. VP breaks ties. That looks a hell of a lot like 51+ reconciliation votes to me.
Also Obama and Reid failed to put the pressure on them. They could have made a couple of them change their position.
But lets not get to sidetracked here. The best solution to healthcare reform was never considered. Single payer. So hell yes I can blame all democrats (there were a few who advocated single payer, but only a few. If any of them were from my district or state I'd make it a point to go vote for them). They rest are so afraid of being called a socialist they can't stand up for what is right.
So seriously, the hell with those chickenshit bastards. They can't get a public option and they didn't even try to get single payer. Useless, and they won't be getting my vote in November.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
 Posted - 05/02/2010 : 02:02:49 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dude
They can't get a public option and they didn't even try to get single payer. Useless, and they won't be getting my vote in November. |
Yea! Lets not vote and hope that the republicans pass good legislation!
Useless indeed (though I understand how you feel)...
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2010 : 04:03:18 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Starman
Originally posted by Dude
They can't get a public option and they didn't even try to get single payer. Useless, and they won't be getting my vote in November. |
Yea! Lets not vote and hope that the republicans pass good legislation!
Useless indeed (though I understand how you feel)...
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The only problem with that is that the more you vote for Democrats, without expecting anything from them, the further right both parties go. Bush was an extremist psychotic, and Obama is a right-wing Republican. They are thugs. Voting for them means that you are supporting thugs. Talking about them as though they were anything but thugs supports their thuggishness.
Are all Democrats the same? No. Vote for Sherrod Brown, vote for Bobby Scott. Fine. Vote for all the local Democrats. Fine. But also remember that even Dennis Kucinich ended up voting for the health "reform" bill, because he knew he was going to be labeled as the guy who didn't vote for it, and that he wouldn't be supported as a Democrat, because, as everyone knows, a third party guy can't get elected (mainly because "everyone knows", not because it's not possible). So he did what he had to do to keep getting elected, knowing that he wasn't actually going to get much of anything done, but maybe, just maybe, he might be able to make a little difference. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2010 : 08:08:51 [Permalink]
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Gorgo:
But also remember that even Dennis Kucinich ended up voting for the health "reform" bill, because he knew he was going to be labeled as the guy who didn't vote for it, and that he wouldn't be supported as a Democrat, because, as everyone knows, a third party guy can't get elected (mainly because "everyone knows", not because it's not possible). So he did what he had to do to keep getting elected, knowing that he wasn't actually going to get much of anything done, but maybe, just maybe, he might be able to make a little difference.
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Well, Kucinich doesn't strike me as a dishonest guy. What he said was that some kind of bill had to be passed in order to have something to build on. If the provision had gone down, it could take as long as another 20 years to get health care reform back on the legislative agenda. The thinking is to put something in place and then start working on making it better. Adding a provision that would allow for a public option down the line would be one possible goal. Another would be to expand existing programs to create a single payer system. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2010 : 12:44:23 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
Well, Kucinich doesn't strike me as a dishonest guy. What he said was that some kind of bill had to be passed in order to have something to build on. If the provision had gone down, it could take as long as another 20 years to get health care reform back on the legislative agenda. The thinking is to put something in place and then start working on making it better. Adding a provision that would allow for a public option down the line would be one possible goal. Another would be to expand existing programs to create a single payer system.
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I don't think he was being totally dishonest. He was being Naderized, and saw it. If someone had actually fought for health care reform, that is, got the people of the U.S. involved in the debate, then we would have had it instead of people thinking it was just to hard to do for another twenty years. Obama is a thug, and people like Markos Moulitsas should be run out of town.
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I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Screw the Democrats!
