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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2010 : 16:02:09 [Permalink]
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I'm not very familiar with Hawaiian or Polynesian culture, but it seems to me from reading the OP that mana is a term that is used in many ways, most of them non-supernatural.
It makes makes sense in a culture that sees no sharp distinction between the material world and the spiritual, that terms need not be separated into classes either for dealing with material reality, or for the supernatural.
Slightly off the mana topic: When dealing with events volcanic, Hawaiians casually refer to the will of the goddess Pele. To me, such statements may or may not be theological and thus irrational. "Pele wants to destroy those houses" can be a perfectly rational way of expressing one's view of what the volcano may do. It's likely to be more of a poetically-inspired expression using local terminology than a theological prediction.
I think mana is a perfectly good word, and hope it will become more common outside Hawaii. I also hope that it will become less of a spiritualist term, and more of a word relating to respect, power, excellence, and charisma (all of which are damned close to pure effing magic, anyway). |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Ebone4rock
SFN Regular
USA
894 Posts |
 Posted - 05/09/2010 : 09:04:10 [Permalink]
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| When dealing with events volcanic, Hawaiians casually refer to the will of the goddess Pele. To me, such statements may or may not be theological and thus irrational. "Pele wants to destroy those houses" can be a perfectly rational way of expressing one's view of what the volcano may do. It's likely to be more of a poetically-inspired expression using local terminology than a theological prediction |
I agree with your analysis. Same with when something of an unexplained mischevoius nature happens the Menehune http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menehune are often cited as the source of the disturbance.
Here is a link that better decribes the menehune. This website is an excellent source to learn about Hawaii. http://www.hawaiianencyclopedia.com/the-menehune-an-ancient-race.asp
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Haole with heart, thats all I'll ever be. I'm not a part of the North Shore society. Stuck on the shoulder, that's where you'll find me. Digging for scraps with the kooks in line. -Offspring |
| Edited by - Ebone4rock on 05/09/2010 09:21:03 |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2010 : 16:20:46 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Ebone4rock
Valiant Dancer,
If you don't mind sharing I would like to ask what your background is in the study of Polynesian history/religion/philosophy.
I am just a simple haole boy who has been fortunate enough to be able to spend a couple of weeks a year in Hawaii. From my first trip there 5 years ago I became enamored with the culture. The subject has now become somewhat of an obsession. My perspective is that of an outsider trying to understand a people who are very different from me. The majority of my knowledge comes from the many $'s I have spent at the Bishop Museum on books, spending time with musicians such as Rev. Dennis Kamakahi, The Makaha Sons, and a young duo called Kupaoa, and visiting museums and culturally significant places (i.e. heiau) on Kauai. I find that the Hawaiian musicians seem to be the most educated about all things Polynesian. That is my perspective in a nutshell.
I would like to debate whether or not religion is necessary for mana to exist using the definition you provided. I will be using anecdotal evidence only...because that's all I have.
Mana is a measure of the forces of nature swirling around you and through you and how your soul focuses them to perform feats of strength or inspire others to accept your leadership. All of this is tied to the polytheistic structure of their native religions.
Mana cannot exist without religion. This is due to the perception of the outside world viewed through the lens of religion.
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When I am performing with my band (heavy metal) I can feel and use mana. I can feel the energy that is in the air from the audience and the pure power of the music collect inside me. When I release this energy to the audience it is very powerful. To this day I am still amazed at the power it gives me. It's like I can make the audience do whatever I want them to do. Anything that I direct them to do they will do (most times) i.e. raising their fists in the air, shouting phrases such as "Hell yeah!" or whatever.
Using your definition this sure sounds like mana to me. No religion required.
Thoughts?
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My background in the Polynesian comes from reading National Geographic, watching programs on the History channel about them, and independant reading of their lore, and a parallel that i can draw with my own religion. I have also studied independantly psychology and have come to some conclusions of human nature.
As my definition of mana requires a theological construct of a "soul" for this force to be focused and directed, it cannot exist outside of religion. (pesky thing about theological constructs.)
The energy of the crowd is something instinctual. Humans are a herd animal. Religion allows the few to pacify and control the herd. Music has been shown to elicit emotion responses in humans. While you may consider it mana, it is actually the instinctual response to the music. When you feel the emotion within yourself build to a level, you can inspire a crowd (the herd) to respond the way you want them to because they are in tune to the emotional state and you are not inspiring them to do something out of character.
For instance, if your band builds on the tapestry of your music and all of a sudden you throw up a "peace" sign, how many in the crowd won't throw up a fist? Insert the phrase "Pat Boone Rocks!" instead of "Hell, yeah!!", and I'm pretty sure that you'll get laughter (unease at the unexpected lead) or confused/blank looks.
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Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Ebone4rock
SFN Regular
USA
894 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2010 : 16:55:12 [Permalink]
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My background in the Polynesian comes from reading National Geographic, watching programs on the History channel about them, and independant reading of their lore, and a parallel that i can draw with my own religion. I have also studied independantly psychology and have come to some conclusions of human nature.
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Ok, then we are not too different other than you having some religious beliefs.
The way I see it is that the group psycology being used in my example of performing really could also be called mana. |
Haole with heart, thats all I'll ever be. I'm not a part of the North Shore society. Stuck on the shoulder, that's where you'll find me. Digging for scraps with the kooks in line. -Offspring |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2010 : 22:51:03 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Ebone4rock
My background in the Polynesian comes from reading National Geographic, watching programs on the History channel about them, and independant reading of their lore, and a parallel that i can draw with my own religion. I have also studied independantly psychology and have come to some conclusions of human nature.
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Ok, then we are not too different other than you having some religious beliefs.
The way I see it is that the group psycology being used in my example of performing really could also be called mana.
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I think such use of "mana" is something akin to Einstein's use of "God," complete with both the same poetic force -- and rhetorical fuzziness. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Mana
