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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
 Posted - 05/10/2010 : 17:12:02 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
Even if it was trained by rote, that elephant seems to be aware of the overall composition, coming back at times to improve existing lines. Just being able to know where each stroke begins and ends entails a good amount of intelligence. |
But nowhere near human-level intelligence.
The Asian Elephant Art and Conservation Project website displays the work of Hong, which, based on the similarity of the drawings, is probably the elephant in the video. Four paintings are for sale, all of which are of the same image (only the flower varies in color and shape). So this is definitely a picture this elephant paints over and over again using a series of learned strokes. I don't see any reason to believe it has any conception of what it is painting. Nothing to suggest it's a conscious attempt at self-expression. It's a startling display of dexterity for such a large animal, certainly, but ultimately no different than any other animal trick learned through rote Pavlovian conditioning.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2010 : 19:23:10 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by H. Humbert
The Asian Elephant Art and Conservation Project website... |
...shows that non-Thai elephants are only doing abstract art, while many Thai elephants display a fascination with plants (especially flowers) and elephants as subject matter, with less than half of them with abstract works for sale:Boombim Flowers
Boon Rod Flowers
Duanpen Abstract
Ging Gaow Abstract
Gongkam Flowers
Hong Elephants w/Flowers
Jaab Flowers & Abstract
Jintara Abstract
Kam Lai Tong Flowers & Trees
Khamtool Flowers
Nom Chok Abstract
Noppakhao Flowers
Nungning Abstract
Paya Elephants & Trees
Plai Chompon Abstract
Punpetch Abstract
Somjai Elephants
Thongpoon Flowers
Wanpen Flowers
Yod Yeam Abstract
Noppakhao is noted for only having been painting for a year, and I think it shows. His paintings don't show the skills that more-experienced elephants have.
Practice makes perfect, and that goes for the mahouts as well as the elephants. Nungning's only been painting for three months, and is only doing abstract stuff. I have a feeling that "better" artworks correlate rather strictly with the amount of effort put in by the trainers.
The anthropomorphizing on that site: it is thick. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2010 : 20:28:39 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by H. Humbert
Originally posted by HalfMooner
Even if it was trained by rote, that elephant seems to be aware of the overall composition, coming back at times to improve existing lines. Just being able to know where each stroke begins and ends entails a good amount of intelligence. |
But nowhere near human-level intelligence.
The Asian Elephant Art and Conservation Project website displays the work of Hong, which, based on the similarity of the drawings, is probably the elephant in the video. Four paintings are for sale, all of which are of the same image (only the flower varies in color and shape). So this is definitely a picture this elephant paints over and over again using a series of learned strokes. I don't see any reason to believe it has any conception of what it is painting. Nothing to suggest it's a conscious attempt at self-expression. It's a startling display of dexterity for such a large animal, certainly, but ultimately no different than any other animal trick learned through rote Pavlovian conditioning. |
I now fully agree. One other thing I'd like to point out is that human-level intelligence has also not been disproved. I hope a good deal more effort is given by science to studying the most intelligent of our fellow beasts. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2010 : 09:31:02 [Permalink]
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So I showed this video to my wife and she didn't believe it was real. After checking with Snopes, I had to admit she was right. The video is a fake.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2010 : 14:30:25 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by H. Humbert
So I showed this video to my wife and she didn't believe it was real. After checking with Snopes, I had to admit she was right. The video is a fake.
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Wow. I'd originally thought the color changes looked faked (though I was quite the sucker for the painting pachyderms). The colors seemed too vivid, and too quickly changing. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Randy
SFN Regular
USA
1990 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2010 : 17:58:55 [Permalink]
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| Cool beans, HH. D'uh, on me....I didn't even think of checking Snopes on this one. |
"We are all connected; to each other biologically, to the earth chemically, to the rest of the universe atomically."
"So you're made of detritus [from exploded stars]. Get over it. Or better yet, celebrate it. After all, what nobler thought can one cherish than that the universe lives within us all?"
-Neil DeGrasse Tyson |
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Filthy, this one's fer you......
