|
|
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 07/15/2010 : 14:31:35
|
There has been a splendid fossil discovery, way up there in the bleak Canadian outback, and the Institute for Creation Research is, as always, on top of the situation with some of the lamest apologetics seen in lo, these many minutes.
Canadian 'Mega' Dinosaur Bonebed Formed by Watery Catastrophe
by Brian Thomas, M.S. * |
We all know where this is going, don't we?
| Canadian scientists have found a massive dinosaur fossil graveyard in Alberta containing so many bones that it calls into question the standard stories of slow and gradual dinosaur fossil formation. No mere river flood could account for so many casualties. So, the researchers proposed that the cause was something much more violent. |
Something more vigorous than a spring run-off seems quite reasonable.
Oh, but while death might be quick, fossilization remains a slow process wherein the remaining bones, well after the soft tissue has gone the way of all flesh, are gradually mineralized. So it really calls nothing “into question.”
| The formal description of the discovery was published in a book titled New Perspectives on Horned Dinosaurs.1 Co-editor David Eberth, Senior Research Scientist at the Royal Tyrrell Museum, stated in a museum news release, "Data from this mega bonebed provide pretty clear evidence that these, and other dinosaurs, were routinely wiped out by catastrophic tropical storms that flooded what was once a coastal lowland here in Alberta, 76 million years ago."2 |
There's small doubt that this happened many times. Indeed, while it was not an every day event, it has certainly happened, and long before the dinosaurs or even their reptilian ancestors walked the Earth. The incredible, 500+ myo Burgess Shales come to mind.
| The "bonebed" covers almost a square mile and contains many Centrosaurus remains. These dinosaurs looked like the more familiar Triceratops, but had additional horns protruding from their skulls. Eberth said of the site that "the scale of the carnage must have been breathtaking" as these and other creatures tried but failed to escape the onrushing waters. Flying or swimming creatures were not fossilized en masse like the larger lumbering beasts, and the researchers reasoned that they were able to escape the overpowering waves. |
Ceratopsians of various species were the most successful dinosaurs of the times and lived in huge herds. It is reasonable to conjecture that this event simply wiped out one of the herds. After all, in the grand scheme of things, a square mile isn't all that big unless you happen to be practicing the Geological Arts, and love excavating with dental tools and paint brushes. Brian, you ought to try that sometime. It's fascinating.
| But where did the water come from that could cause such mayhem? The researchers proposed a "tropical storm model," in which hurricanes must have washed water up onto a shallow coast.2 That hypothesis shares some similarities to the flood model proposed by creation scientists, but how well does each fit this fossil data? |
Quite well, actually. Did you ever hear of the Western Interior Seaway,? It is sometimes called the Cretaceous Seaway and there was no shortage of water in it. And it's location was about right for this event.
| The standard dinosaur fossilization story holds that the reptiles were crossing a stream and got caught in a rising river. But no rising streams today deposit fossil graveyards. Tropical storms, however, are known to drive water ashore and devastate landscapes, washing over whatever animals lie in their paths. The tropical storm model may be an improvement over the flooded stream scenario, but it is equally true that today's hurricane storm surges don't produce fossil graveyards either! |
Yeah? Sez who? There are many ways that the remains of an animal can meet fossilization – burial in volcanic ash, sand storms, tar pits, and so forth. Being under mud is more effective and common, but not entirely necessary.
It is conceivable that fossils are being created even as we speak, although due to Earth's current conditions and our activities, it would be even more rare than it once was.
| And warm oceans are required to generate these weather patterns, hence the term "tropical" in "tropical storm." Canada is not very tropical, and even if it was once 2,500 miles further south, any ancient tropical storm similar to today's tempests might pile up carcasses, but would not bury them deep enough to keep them from rotting before they could fossilize. |
It was plenty warm enough in the Late Cretaceous, Brian me ol' nitwitty. Of course, that was a lot longer ago than the geological nanosecond of 6,000 years.
And at the risk of repeating myself; in all but a very few, very rare instances, all of the soft tissue decomposes no matter where nor how the animal was buried. All you have left is mineralized bone and perhaps some impressions from such as feathers in the matrix. That being settled, let us speak of it no more.
| Eberth cited hurricanes as the reason why dinosaur fossils "are often found preserved so exquisitely."2 And yet "exquisite" fossil preservation is not a byproduct of even the most powerful of today's hurricanes. A more catastrophic event is needed that could carry much more sediment to deeply bury the remains and keep them from decaying. None of today's natural processes are adequate to explain the centrosaur and other fossil graveyards. |
This was covered back up the page, and now I'm finally calling bullshit. You are, and have been from the beginning, transparently leading up to a global flood claim that has not a scintilla of supporting evidence!
| The basic description of the historical account provided in Genesis, which is corroborated by hundreds of legends,3 depicts rising waters that eventually washed over all of the earth's continents before running into today's deeper ocean basins. Such a universal deluge fits the facts of the Canadian mass kill with the fewest logical leaps. |
Legends, any and all legends, collaborate doodely-squat, and that includes the Biblical version of this one. To top it off, you are putting the cart before the horse. It is the legends that require the verification. The Flood has the fewest leaps of logic simply because it is based entirely upon the illogical. Talk's cheap; it takes hard money to buy good whiskey, and hard evidence to support good claims.
| It makes more sense to interpret this fossil graveyard as a result of one of the many tsunami-like waves that gradually pulsed over the continents during the course of the year-long Flood event, when "the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered."4 |
It probably was a tsunami-like wave and it killed and buried a herd of Centrosaurus. It came out of the Western Interior Seaway, perhaps caused by a storm, a volcanic event, or an earthquake. All of the hand-waving, of which you have done little else but, and windy rhetoric – not to mention the lies of omission as well as the outright kind -- will change nothing.
Link to the original article.
|
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
|
Edited by - filthy on 07/16/2010 03:29:40
|
|
|
HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2010 : 23:27:44 [Permalink]
|
| Nicely thought out rebuttal to the ICR hand-waving gobbledygook, Filthy. Thanks especially for bringing the genuine original scientific research to our attention! |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
 |
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2010 : 03:19:03 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by HalfMooner
Nicely thought out rebuttal to the ICR hand-waving gobbledygook, Filthy. Thanks especially for bringing the genuine original scientific research to our attention!
|
Thanks!
This one was so ridiculous and easy to pick apart that I can scarcely believe ICR put it on their page. The only challenge, apart from the major one of posting it here -- had a few problems with that -- was keeping it brief and the personal insults to a bare minimum. Really, the article was/is an insult to the intelligence!
And a thanks to Dave W, who claims to have done nothing but after consulting him on the posting problem I was having, the screed posted easily; almost magically. And also to Kil, who advised me to try a trick that I couldn't get to work entirely. He also pointed me in Dave's direction.
Glad you enjoyed it -- until the next one, then.... 
|
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
|
|
|
|
The Rat
SFN Regular
Canada
1370 Posts |
 Posted - 07/16/2010 : 05:30:56 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by filthy
...who advised me to try a trick that I couldn't get to work entirely. |
Easy, didn't a phrase similar to that get a climate scientist into trouble recently?  |
Bailey's second law; There is no relationship between the three virtues of intelligence, education, and wisdom.
You fiend! Never have I encountered such corrupt and foul-minded perversity! Have you ever considered a career in the Church? - The Bishop of Bath and Wells, Blackadder II
Baculum's page: http://www.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=3947338590 |
|
|
|
 |
|
|
|
The Alberta fossil find and ICR.
